60WinTim wrote:I noticed two comments by Flip in some of the tweets: they are trusting their evaluation process in going after Payne. While it's still early, I can't complain about Flip's evaluation process given most of our reaction to the Bazz pick...
And secondly, Flip said Payne was probably the best pick-and-roll defender coming out of college.
only one problem Tim.
Flip didn't trust his own process when he took Bazz.
WildWolf2813 wrote:why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick
I don't see how a non-lottery pick is a premium for a guy who was the 15th pick this year. Also, declaring Payne a marginal player with 3 total games under his belt is ridiculous. A premium is the 6th overall pick in Noel for Holiday.
You're missing my point. It shouldn't have to cost us a future potential first rounder when it seems like everyone else can find their backups and fringe rotation guys in the 2nd round and the scrap heap. That's what I'm saying.
and again, I like Payne. I would have taken him or Gary Harris ahead of Zach LaVine no questions asked, but he's at best our backup PF, and in a league where teams don't have to spend so much to get these type of players, we're using actual assets. That's the annoying aspect of this deal. Again, I'm not knocking Payne. I just hope we don't use and Payne and/or Bjelica as an excuse to not go with a big man this upcoming draft.
Camden wrote:"The keys to this organization going forward will be the development of Wiggins, LaVine, Shabazz [highlight=#ddd123]and possibly Bennett[/highlight] along with the health of Ricky."
Boy oh boy. We're still that high on him?
Cam -- If you can't see Bennett's talent enough to see him as "POSSIBLY" significant to this team's future, then I'd like to recommend you see a good optometrist. :)
Sure, I know his physical gifts. I just think it's a long shot that he'll ever use them to their fullest ability. Bennett's soft.
PS: This trade for Payne should NOT impact the way we draft this summer.
Cam, I think your skepticism about Bennett is reasonable. Remain high on his talent - physical gifts, skills and IQ. However, there are signs of a motor that's not always running and if that persists he won't come anywhere close to reaching his considerable potential. I still think he will, but there's a reason I used the word "possibly" soley in connection with Bennett and not the others. If Bennett does pan out, it will be a huge boost for this franchise.
60WinTim wrote:I noticed two comments by Flip in some of the tweets: they are trusting their evaluation process in going after Payne. While it's still early, I can't complain about Flip's evaluation process given most of our reaction to the Bazz pick...
And secondly, Flip said Payne was probably the best pick-and-roll defender coming out of college.
Remember Flip saying that Bennett was Cleveland's best pick & roll defender?
WildWolf2813 wrote:why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick
It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.
WildWolf2813 wrote:why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick
It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.
I'm not gonna judge Atlanta on their selection of Payne given where they are right now. that team is stacked, especially with bigs. I think Payne could be a backup PF for us. I just wish we hadn't traded a future first to do that, or even better: I wish we had just taken Payne instead of LaVine
bleedspeed177 wrote:Picks typically outside the lottery are typically worth more then the players you draft. I would have thought someone like T Jones or Vonlesh would be available for this type of pick. We gave up a first for a player that didn't even start all of his D-League games and was beaten out by a second rounder that plays the same position from the year before. Seems like a premium.
On another note. I wish Bud would ask to be traded and agree to opt out.
Absolutely right, Bleed! We're looking amateurish again. But I sure hope I'm wrong about Payne and that he turns out to be a really good rotation PF who rebounds and protects the rim - two things he didn't do particularly well as a college senior.
WildWolf2813 wrote:why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick
It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.
I'm not gonna judge Atlanta on their selection of Payne given where they are right now. that team is stacked, especially with bigs. I think Payne could be a backup PF for us. I just wish we hadn't traded a future first to do that, or even better: I wish we had just taken Payne instead of LaVine
I agree with on the folly of giving up a first round pick for Payne. I'm simply less impressed with Payne than you are. Course hope you're right about him.
For the record, I am very happy we took LaVine over Payne. I can tell you that, contrary to what Flip apparently said today, it was not a close call between LaVine and Payne.
WildWolf2813 wrote:why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick
It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.
Obviously, Lip?!?
There are numerous reasons Atlanta was willing to move Payne, and none of them had anything to do with Payne's ability to play in this league. It was about a plethora of PFs, salaries, and a roster spot for an overseas prospect they want to bring over next season.
And, yeah, Flip's comment about about pick-and-roll immediately brought to mind the similar about Bennett, although that comment came from Cleveland...
Absolutely right, Bleed! We're looking amateurish again. But I sure hope I'm wrong about Payne and that he turns out to be a really good rotation PF who rebounds and protects the rim - two things he didn't do particularly well as a college senior.
I trust Flip's opinion of talent, but if this doesn't work out and we make the playoffs this is going to make the Webster and Bud trades that Kahn made look good because we at least got young players that had proven to be players in the league.
