Minnesota Sports Forum

60WinTim wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Other than Robert Covington, this team is literally incapable of finding or developing someone that can both play defense and shoot the 3. It would almost be a violation of the laws of nature for this to happen....ESPECIALLY with someone we have drafted.

So with my Wolves' interest re-kindled, I had to restart my Athletic subscription again so I could read articles by Jon, Britt, et al. One of Britt's observations is that the starting duo of Kat and RoCo (RoCo at the 4) was terrible last year, but that the Kat and Layman (Layman at the 4) was pretty darn good. I'm not exactly sure how to process that information as of yet. Sample size is a factor I am sure. But just sayin'...

Idk if Britt said it in his article but he mentioned in the podcast with Dane Moore that Layman's Defensive rating held up even when he returned from the toe injury. Both Britt and Dane were much higher in Layman having a role on this team than most posters here. If Britt praises a guy on defense that's not something he gives out too much and he was complimentary of Layman's D last year. He also said he was somewhat surprised how bad Beasley was on defense for the Wolves because he thought looking back at some tape of him in Denver he thought he wasn't terrible.

monsterpile wrote:

60WinTim wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Other than Robert Covington, this team is literally incapable of finding or developing someone that can both play defense and shoot the 3. It would almost be a violation of the laws of nature for this to happen....ESPECIALLY with someone we have drafted.

So with my Wolves' interest re-kindled, I had to restart my Athletic subscription again so I could read articles by Jon, Britt, et al. One of Britt's observations is that the starting duo of Kat and RoCo (RoCo at the 4) was terrible last year, but that the Kat and Layman (Layman at the 4) was pretty darn good. I'm not exactly sure how to process that information as of yet. Sample size is a factor I am sure. But just sayin'...

Idk if Britt said it in his article but he mentioned in the podcast with Dane Moore that Layman's Defensive rating held up even when he returned from the toe injury. Both Britt and Dane were much higher in Layman having a role on this team than most posters here. If Britt praises a guy on defense that's not something he gives out too much and he was complimentary of Layman's D last year. He also said he was somewhat surprised how bad Beasley was on defense for the Wolves because he thought looking back at some tape of him in Denver he thought he wasn't terrible.

I think it's worth noting that the sample size is just 14 games, with 3 newly acquired players thrown into the starting line up, and no KAT. That will be one of the intriguing story lines of the season: defense, and how bad is it.

It's almost a certainty that we will have one very highly paid player not starting at the beginning of the year. Assuming no injuries to our PGs and wings, either Beasley ($15 million) or Rubio ($17 million) will be on the bench with the other paired with D-Lo in the backcourt. My choice to start would be Rubio because 1) his relatively stronger defense offsets D-Lo's deficiency and 2) I think a pass-first veteran is exactly what KAT and D-Lo need next to them at the start (and end) of games. I also see Beasley as an attractive scoring option off the bench.

I would also add that D-Lo has said publicly in the past that he prefers playing SG to PG- he feels he is much more productive when he is off ball. He could be terrific paired with Ricky.

We have a lot of options for starting SF, because most of our wings have above average length. Okogie is 7'-0, Edwards is 6'10", Culver is 6-9.5", and Layman is 6-9"- all of those are at least average for an NBA SF. And even though D-Lo is never in the conversation as a SF, his wingspan is a surprising 6'10.5"! Ryan has lots of options to mix and match at the wings.

My choice is still Edwards, unless he proves to be a complete flop in preseason. I hear Camden's point that one reason #1 picks always start is because they generally join very bad teams- and the Wolves are not necessarily a very bad team. But I would argue his upside is so much higher than the other candidates, that I want the Edwards Era to start right away.

We'll have to see, but at the start of the season I would like to see Rubio/D-Lo/Edwards/Juancho/KAT. And by mid-season, I would be thrilled to see Vanderbilt replace Juancho as the starting 4.

Houston is interested in resigning Bruno Caboclo despite that he rotted on their bench. I don't know what Wolves could offer him, but I want Bruno in Minnesota. Super lengthy defensive minded PF and can knock down 3s.

One thing to consider...

A second unit with Culver, Okogie, Rubio and possibly even Davis is going to struggle mightily to score.

It will be interesting though to see how the various lineups pan out. There seems to be a definite logjam at various spots. One thing that the Wolves seem to always struggle with... the best talent may not be the best fit all the time.

You can't have too many guys looking to "get theirs" at the same time. Rubio will go a long way to help alleviate that... but he can only do so much.




[Note: Even if Edwards hits HUGE. That's an issue for this team moving forward. What happens, sometimes, is that the guy who needs to have the ball passed to him takes the hit. And that would be bad for the Wolves. Towns has proven to be the most efficient shooting big whether on many touches or only a few. He should never be the guy compromising on the offensive end.]

KG4Ever wrote:Houston is interested in resigning Bruno Caboclo despite that he rotted on their bench. I don't know what Wolves could offer him, but I want Bruno in Minnesota. Super lengthy defensive minded PF and can knock down 3s.

I like him too but at this point there is simply no roster spot for him.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:One thing to consider...

A second unit with Culver, Okogie, Rubio and possibly even Davis is going to struggle mightily to score.

It will be interesting though to see how the various lineups pan out. There seems to be a definite logjam at various spots. One thing that the Wolves seem to always struggle with... the best talent may not be the best fit all the time.

You can't have too many guys looking to "get theirs" at the same time. Rubio will go a long way to help alleviate that... but he can only do so much.




[Note: Even if Edwards hits HUGE. That's an issue for this team moving forward. What happens, sometimes, is that the guy who needs to have the ball passed to him takes the hit. And that would be bad for the Wolves. Towns has proven to be the most efficient shooting big whether on many touches or only a few. He should never be the guy compromising on the offensive end.]

This is why Britt Robson says his theory is Russell will be the one traded especially if Edwards hits even to some extent. Britt suggests it's going to be VERY interesting to see how all these guys handle playing time their usage etc. Does someone get upset with their role? Russell was supposed to be the guy here and now wonder boy Rubio is back will Russell embrace that? Britt also pointed out He wants to see Towns play with the ball more like we saw early last season. The one positive is that Beasley isn't really a guy that needs to have the ball all that much to do his thing which is make outside shots and play in transition. I'm not sure I agree with all of the takes Britt had in the podcast (He actually called his theory on Russell a conspiracy theory lol) with Dane Moore but he makes some points worth considering in pondering this roster as the season unfolds.

For what it's worth, this is what D'Angelo Russell had to say about playing multiple positions, alluding to FNG's comment above.

Russell feels equally comfortable playing either guard spot, but noted the relative ease he felt playing off the ball.

"It's easier. I like the ability to be able to do both jobs," he said. "But playing off the ball I feel like you have one job and that's to play-make on the offensive end. On the defensive end, definitely guard your position. But on the offensive end, just play make, and I feel like that's my strength instead of coming up across half-court with the ball in my hands and setting up guys -- and then when the ball comes back making plays.

"It's vice versa, when you off the ball as soon as you get it you can make those plays and attack the defense. So it's definitely easier, but wherever I'm at, I feel I can make it work."

These comments were answers to questions when he joined the Golden State Warriors and the media wondered how he would fit with Steph Curry. I wonder if the fifth starter decision will be influenced by Russell's feelings on the matter. Does he want to be the full-time ball-handler? Or does he feel like he can be better at the two where he can prioritize scoring and making quick reads versus running constant action like a more traditional point guard such as Ricky Rubio.

Perhaps one option that we haven't mentioned is a lineup that features Rubio, Russell, Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez, and Karl-Anthony Towns. That certainly is an undersized group, but they'd be relying on their five best players. Anthony Edwards would be the first sub into the game for either Rubio or Beasley.

And if that's their plan, then it means retaining Jordan McLaughlin is even more important.

Camden0916 wrote:For what it's worth, this is what D'Angelo Russell had to say about playing multiple positions, alluding to FNG's comment above.

Russell feels equally comfortable playing either guard spot, but noted the relative ease he felt playing off the ball.

"It's easier. I like the ability to be able to do both jobs," he said. "But playing off the ball I feel like you have one job and that's to play-make on the offensive end. On the defensive end, definitely guard your position. But on the offensive end, just play make, and I feel like that's my strength instead of coming up across half-court with the ball in my hands and setting up guys -- and then when the ball comes back making plays.

"It's vice versa, when you off the ball as soon as you get it you can make those plays and attack the defense. So it's definitely easier, but wherever I'm at, I feel I can make it work."

These comments were answers to questions when he joined the Golden State Warriors and the media wondered how he would fit with Steph Curry. I wonder if the fifth starter decision will be influenced by Russell's feelings on the matter. Does he want to be the full-time ball-handler? Or does he feel like he can be better at the two where he can prioritize scoring and making quick reads versus running constant action like a more traditional point guard such as Ricky Rubio.

Perhaps one option that we haven't mentioned is a lineup that features Rubio, Russell, Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez, and Karl-Anthony Towns. That certainly is an undersized group, but they'd be relying on their five best players. Anthony Edwards would be the first sub into the game for either Rubio or Beasley.

And if that's their plan, then it means retaining Jordan McLaughlin is even more important.

I think the issue with that lineup would be that the bench would have all the young players except Jake Layman who has actually played fewer NBA minutes than Josh Okogie. Lol like you said they could could sub someone pretty quickly and make it all work but I do think there is something to the idea of having some guys play legit minutes together. It doesn't have to be a hockey lineup but it's something to consider. If I was Beasley I would be intrigued with always playing legit minutes and always with a starting level PG regardless of what role I played.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:One thing to consider...

A second unit with Culver, Okogie, Rubio and possibly even Davis is going to struggle mightily to score.

It will be interesting though to see how the various lineups pan out. There seems to be a definite logjam at various spots. One thing that the Wolves seem to always struggle with... the best talent may not be the best fit all the time.

You can't have too many guys looking to "get theirs" at the same time. Rubio will go a long way to help alleviate that... but he can only do so much.




[Note: Even if Edwards hits HUGE. That's an issue for this team moving forward. What happens, sometimes, is that the guy who needs to have the ball passed to him takes the hit. And that would be bad for the Wolves. Towns has proven to be the most efficient shooting big whether on many touches or only a few. He should never be the guy compromising on the offensive end.]

This is why Britt Robson says his theory is Russell will be the one traded especially if Edwards hits even to some extent. Britt suggests it's going to be VERY interesting to see how all these guys handle playing time their usage etc. Does someone get upset with their role? Russell was supposed to be the guy here and now wonder boy Rubio is back will Russell embrace that? Britt also pointed out He wants to see Towns play with the ball more like we saw early last season. The one positive is that Beasley isn't really a guy that needs to have the ball all that much to do his thing which is make outside shots and play in transition. I'm not sure I agree with all of the takes Britt had in the podcast (He actually called his theory on Russell a conspiracy theory lol) with Dane Moore but he makes some points worth considering in pondering this roster as the season unfolds.

Get ready for a bumpy ride:

Rubio is an analytics darling... as we're all aware.
And there are hints that Russell comes from the DeRozan/Westbrook mold of "but he's a net negative on the court!" hot takes.

But all of this comes back to team chemistry. The "disease of more" doesn't just happen on championship teams. It happens on young bad teams with guys looking to get theirs, too. It's why having three really good young players on the same "timeline" can be so dicey. Which one willingly takes the backseat?

I'm officially kicking a dead horse now, but that's why I dug a trade down to land another starter and a guy like Haliburton who would willingly just do his job.

If you're paying Russell and Towns $60M combined and they're not capable of leading a team -- you made a terrible mistake bringing them to the team in the first place at that price point.