Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:The last 11 games we've played in have all been decided by 8 points or less and five of those were 4 points or less. We're competitive and getting deep into games against pretty much everyone we play. It's frustrating to see all of the late game misses and mistakes that lead to so much losing.

Meh. We've seen this story before. Many, many times.

So I can't help but think "Who cares?"

That's still a -2.45 differential... the two teams with similar differentials for the season are 11 - 17. This organization does not deserve our moral victory pity at this point. At least not from me. We deserve better.

- Indiana is without two key players, LeVert and Warren. They were a .500 team.
- LAL was without Davis.
- Charlotte only had 8 players in uniform.
- Clippers were without George.
- Dallas is below .500.
- The Thunder are rebuilding/tanking and were without 2 starters.
- Cleveland has lost 10 of 11... with the only win vs... you guessed it... the Timberwolves.

I don't care if the Wolves lose the next 82 games on 94-foot lucky heaves by the opposition.

Just win games. That's all that matters. Literally... every other team in NBA history has figured out how to do it better. Literally... every other team in the NBA this season has figured out how to do it better.

FNG wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Saunders said the last play of regulation was designed to get KAT rolling to the hoop or Edwards attacking the rim. Clear he didn't want the 3 there.

From Jon K


So does our coach have 0 respect from the players because Kat did not roll at all and Ant settled for a 3....

Clearly. In fact if you read KAT's and Ant's lips on the sidelines, you can see them plotting to do the opposite of what the coach drew up. I'm pretty sure I saw KAT saying "I don't respect Ryan, so Ant, put up a wild 3 rather than the play he designed".

Come on, kek...isn't the "fire Ryan" narrative getting a little silly? Players make mistakes sometimes, and it isn't always on the coach. This is one of those times. Ant and KAT have been quite effective in the 2-man game of late, and the play call was right. The execution? Not so much.

As most should know by now... I blame the players A LOT more than the coaches.

And this seems to be just one more example of it. Here's yet another thread ripping Saunders for strategy and execution... but we don't know what's actually going on out there. The Wolves roster is filled with young players who (1) don't know what they're doing (2) have extremely limited history of success. They're going to fuck up. A lot. Especially when they don't execute the plan given to them by smart (whether we want to believe it or not... not all 8 Wolves coaches are idiots about basketball) people on the sidelines.

BUT... that would be the #1 reason I would be fine with firing Saunders. It's not necessarily about rotations. Timeout usage. Challenge usage. Big ball. Or small ball. Okogie or Vanderbilt. Russell or Rubio.

It's about respect. Every coach in the NBA (even Saunders) is telling his players smart things to put them in the best places to be successful.

Whether those players are actually listening and more importantly executing... that can be what separates an average team from a terrible team.

If players aren't listening to Saunders... dump him. Is it fair for a coach to be the fall guy for players not listening? In 99% of life... no. In the NBA... it's a player's league. Keep cycling through coaches until you get one that earns their respect. Or, keep cycling through players until you get enough willing to listen.

It's easier to swap coaches.

OK, I don't like losing and this team is losing far too much. But at the end of the day I gravitate toward Q's post toward the end of this thread. There's no question that in the midst of an avalanche of losses, this team is improving and playing much more entertaining basketball. I honestly can't remember a Wolves' team that moved the ball like this edition does. Can anyone? My God, 37 assists on 45 made shots! Our PGs had 20 assists and only 2 TOs! But as much as the "youngest team in the league" mantra gets ripped here, 19 year olds frankly don't deserve to win against veteran teams. As long as we are starting three guys 21 and younger like we did last night, wins are going to be few and far between. My expectations are low...all I'm asking for every night is effort, ball movement and improvement. And I saw all three last night.

But in the end, we just didn't make shots when we had to. The two missed shots after we had built a 5-point lead with less than a minute left were inexcusable. Rubio had 13 assists and ran the clock down well on his last possession, but it seemed to me like he went into that play with a "hero ball" mentality...he wanted to make that nail-in-the-coffin shot. We rip DLO for his hero ball tendencies, but at least he is a more reliable shooter than Ricky. The decision was poor, and the missed shot was inevitable. And then there was KAT's lazy roll on the final play...again inexcusable, and the result was a forced three by Ant. Finally, we can't complain about our Big Knockers not touching the ball down the stretch. KAT missed 3 easy looks and Beasley missed 2 easy looks that Ricky gave them in OT. We did what we had to do in OT...we just didn't make the shots.

I'm not going to break down the game player by player, because we only have to look at Ant's line to see why we looked so good throughout the game but still lost...3-15 shooting and a whopping minus 23! Anthony Edwards...meet Myles Turner. Over and over again. Same on Ant for continuing to unsuccessfully show us that he really could get a shot off against an elite shot blocker. And shame on Ryan for giving Ant 39 minutes when he was clearly playing like an undisciplined 19-year-old. This was a game where a more disciplined player like Nowell deserved at least 10 of those bad minutes Ant gave us.

But despite Ant's futility last night (after a career night just the night before) and the inability to make open shots in OT, I thoroughly enjoyed this game. Any game with 37 assists is going to get my approval. The offense was beautiful to watch last night. But man, even my patience is going to disappear if this improved play doesn't lead to some wins soon.

I mentioned in my previous post that Rubio seemed to channel DLO at the end of the game with his forced shot...in all fairness, DLO probably makes that shot, and we avoid overtime. It's his greatest strength. But Rubio's -10 in the box score also didn't get ignored by me...also quite DLO-like. To be fair, 6 of those -10 came in OT when he gave 5 open looks to KAT and Beas who missed the shots, but he still was a negative during regulation. Some of this might be due to his inability to stay on front of Brogdon, but then J-Mac and Beasley struggled just as much when matched up with him. I'm not sure why Ricky was "minus" last night, but we aren't going to win many games when he is. I and others rip DLO for his consistent "minuses" throughout his career and Ricky has been a consistent "plus" player throughout his career, but there's no question that Ricky's -10 was a factor in last night's loss.

FNG wrote:I mentioned in my previous post that Rubio seemed to channel DLO at the end of the game with his forced shot...in all fairness, DLO probably makes that shot, and we avoid overtime. It's his greatest strength. But Rubio's -10 in the box score also didn't get ignored by me...also quite DLO-like. To be fair, 6 of those -10 came in OT when he gave 5 open looks to KAT and Beas who missed the shots, but he still was a negative during regulation. Some of this might be due to his inability to stay on front of Brogdon, but then J-Mac and Beasley struggled just as much when matched up with him. I'm not sure why Ricky was "minus" last night, but we aren't going to win many games when he is. I and others rip DLO for his consistent "minuses" throughout his career and Ricky has been a consistent "plus" player throughout his career, but there's no question that Ricky's -10 was a factor in last night's loss.

Towns was -18. Edwards was -23. Meanwhile... Josh Okogie was a team high +9.

Rubio has sucked balls this season. We should probably let him have a day off from the criticism... I'm sure there will be many games he'll deserve it more.

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:That's right. Next year will be different. And the year after that. And then the year after that. I'm not sure when would be appropriate to fire Ryan Saunders. We just haven't seen enough yet...

Why would you fire him? The Wolves are showing very nice progress considering we are playing the youngest team by a longshot in the league. Rubio is finally getting healthy and into NBA condition. Rubio was a huge disappointment till these last couple games. Other then him I would say JO and Culver on offense have been as well (shooting and finishing). All the rest of the players are playing above my expectations. Ryan I think is doing a good job really considering everything.

The team has been competitive and could easily start winning more then they lose. The players are buying in and getting better. That's all you can ask really. Are the players buying in, playing hard? Yes.

"Very nice progress" doesn't lead to a 7-22 record. "Very nice progress" doesn't mean losing at a higher rate than previous years. The Wolves have gotten worse every year that Ryan Saunders has been the head coach. And while the parts around him have changed, the results stay the same or worse.

Tom Thibodeau
2017-18: 47-35 (.573) -- 113.4 ORtg, 111.1 DRtg
2018-19: 19-21 (.475) -- 111.2 ORtg, 110.6 DRtg

Ryan Saunders
2018-19: 17-25 (.405) -- 112.9 ORtg, 116.3 DRtg
2019-20: 19-45 (.297) -- 108.1 ORtg, 112.2 DRtg
2020-21: 7-22 (.241) -- 106.5 ORtg, 113.9 DRtg

Minnesota has lost by 15-plus points eight times already this season. If you're keeping up, that means the Wolves are more likely to lose by 15 or more points than they are to win. They're also 1-5 this season in games decided by three points or less. That's not a competitive team. The very definition of competitive is to be as good as or better than others of a comparable nature. Minnesota has the worst record in basketball. Saunders just isn't getting the job done. We can debate about whether or not he's a capable game manager (he's not), or if he's utilizing his players to their best capabilities (he's not), or if he's a savvy X's and O's coach (he's not). But the fact remains that this franchise has only gotten worse under Saunders.

Do results not matter? How much worse are we willing to get under Saunders?

The Wolves were a veteran team under Thibs. He traded away the future for 1 playoff appearance!!!

Not only that your stats for this season are incomplete.

Heck last night the Wolves were starting TWO Rookies. Name another team starting 2 rookies this season in a game. Then they had a good chance to win to boot.

kekgeek1 wrote:Saunders said the last play of regulation was designed to get KAT rolling to the hoop or Edwards attacking the rim. Clear he didn't want the 3 there.

From Jon K


So does our coach have 0 respect from the players because Kat did not roll at all and Ant settled for a 3....

Plays are just that, plays. I would say a great majority of times around the NBA players simply do what they think is best to succeed as plays break down. I do think Ant should have probably driven to the hoop considering Indy didn't have any TO's so any time left they would have to go full court (off a foul call or pass to KAT).

I would say it's also difficult to time a play to work out while limiting the other team at the end of regulation. I don't really blame Ant. He took a good shot that was millimeters from going in.

The "fire Saunders now" crowd might not sit well with our franchise player. Interesting that KAT credited the coaching staff for his defensive resurgence.

https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1362267397688684547

FNG wrote:The "fire Saunders now" crowd might not sit well with our franchise player. Interesting that KAT credited the coaching staff for his defensive resurgence.

https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1362267397688684547

When was his first surge? Did I miss it! Lol

PorkChop wrote:

FNG wrote:The "fire Saunders now" crowd might not sit well with our franchise player. Interesting that KAT credited the coaching staff for his defensive resurgence.

https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1362267397688684547

When was his first surge? Did I miss it! Lol

Ha, you got me on that one, pork! My "re" in resurgence was clearly a misstatement. Chalk one up for The Chopper!