Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:FNG you can't say Mitchell is inefficient and ignore what he has been doing in the playoffs the last 2 years while also ignoring his ability to get to the line and convert which is not included in eFG.

Also if Russell is Donovan Mitchell we should keep him...at least till he becomes a Mitchell type that we can trade for a lot of value to all those GMs that don't get how These guys just aren't as valuable as other less sexy players.

Monster, I think I'm being misunderstood here...not surprising, it happens all the time with my gal too ;-) . My point is that I have a difficult time labeling as a star a very poor defending shooting guard if he also isn't an efficient scorer...in my value system a shooting guard has to be really good at at least one of those two things to be considered a star. And nobody would call Mitchell an especially efficient scorer, unless you also label Andrew Wiggins as being efficient. I hear your concern about eFG%, but Mitchell's TS% (which includes free throws) was 56.9% this past season...that places him in the lower half of the league by this measure, tied with former ROY Andrew Wiggins at 183rd in the league. And while I acknowledge Q's point that efficiency might be hurt if you are clearly the #1 option on your team, I see a lot of guys who are #1 options with much higher TS%'s. Nobody would argue that Donovan is any more of a first option than Zach Lavine or SGA, but they both rank in the top 10 in efficiency among SGs and far ahead of Donovan.

And I'm not certainly suggesting that DLO will ever be as good as Mitchell...I think we know what his ceiling is after 5 years in the league. My point was more of a "woe is me as a hapless T-Wolves fan". I recognize that Abe doesn't see them as similar players in any way, but I see similarities between the two in that they are both high-scoring albeit inefficient shooting guards who are known poor defenders, but still have max contracts. I find it very T-Wolfian that our max guy in this comparison is not only much worse than their guy, but that we also gave up a 1st round pick to get him! Like I said, I'm not feeling very optimistic about our local NBA team the more I watch these playoffs...these teams are at a completely different level from us.

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:FNG you can't say Mitchell is inefficient and ignore what he has been doing in the playoffs the last 2 years while also ignoring his ability to get to the line and convert which is not included in eFG.

Also if Russell is Donovan Mitchell we should keep him...at least till he becomes a Mitchell type that we can trade for a lot of value to all those GMs that don't get how These guys just aren't as valuable as other less sexy players.

Monster, I think I'm being misunderstood here...not surprising, it happens all the time with my gal too ;-) . My point is that I have a difficult time labeling as a star a very poor defending shooting guard if he also isn't an efficient scorer...in my value system a shooting guard has to be really good at at least one of those two things to be considered a star. And nobody would call Mitchell an especially efficient scorer, unless you also label Andrew Wiggins as being efficient. I hear your concern about eFG%, but Mitchell's TS% (which includes free throws) was 56.9% this past season...that places him in the lower half of the league by this measure, tied with former ROY Andrew Wiggins at 183rd in the league. And while I acknowledge Q's point that efficiency might be hurt if you are clearly the #1 option on your team, I see a lot of guys who are #1 options with much higher TS%'s. Nobody would argue that Donovan is any more of a first option than Zach Lavine or SGA, but they both rank in the top 10 in efficiency among SGs and far ahead of Donovan.

And I'm not certainly suggesting that DLO will ever be as good as Mitchell...I think we know what his ceiling is after 5 years in the league. My point was more of a "woe is me as a hapless T-Wolves fan". I recognize that Abe doesn't see them as similar players in any way, but I see similarities between the two in that they are both high-scoring albeit inefficient shooting guards who are known poor defenders, but still have max contracts. I find it very T-Wolfian that our max guy in this comparison is not only much worse than their guy, but that we also gave up a 1st round pick to get him! Like I said, I'm not feeling very optimistic about our local NBA team the more I watch these playoffs...these teams are at a completely different level from us.

Yeah, I think just the sheer magnitude of elite talent is scary. Hell, Doncic, LeBron, and Lillard are in that upper echelon and they're sitting on their couches right now. Guys like Ben Simmons and two-time MVP Giannis look like flawed players and they'd be massive upgrades for us. Durant, Kawhi, Paul George....the list goes on. We need Edwards to get as good as KAT to simply even stay afloat in the regular season, much less make a deep playoff run.

Q12543 wrote:

FNG wrote:

monsterpile wrote:FNG you can't say Mitchell is inefficient and ignore what he has been doing in the playoffs the last 2 years while also ignoring his ability to get to the line and convert which is not included in eFG.

Also if Russell is Donovan Mitchell we should keep him...at least till he becomes a Mitchell type that we can trade for a lot of value to all those GMs that don't get how These guys just aren't as valuable as other less sexy players.

Monster, I think I'm being misunderstood here...not surprising, it happens all the time with my gal too ;-) . My point is that I have a difficult time labeling as a star a very poor defending shooting guard if he also isn't an efficient scorer...in my value system a shooting guard has to be really good at at least one of those two things to be considered a star. And nobody would call Mitchell an especially efficient scorer, unless you also label Andrew Wiggins as being efficient. I hear your concern about eFG%, but Mitchell's TS% (which includes free throws) was 56.9% this past season...that places him in the lower half of the league by this measure, tied with former ROY Andrew Wiggins at 183rd in the league. And while I acknowledge Q's point that efficiency might be hurt if you are clearly the #1 option on your team, I see a lot of guys who are #1 options with much higher TS%'s. Nobody would argue that Donovan is any more of a first option than Zach Lavine or SGA, but they both rank in the top 10 in efficiency among SGs and far ahead of Donovan.

And I'm not certainly suggesting that DLO will ever be as good as Mitchell...I think we know what his ceiling is after 5 years in the league. My point was more of a "woe is me as a hapless T-Wolves fan". I recognize that Abe doesn't see them as similar players in any way, but I see similarities between the two in that they are both high-scoring albeit inefficient shooting guards who are known poor defenders, but still have max contracts. I find it very T-Wolfian that our max guy in this comparison is not only much worse than their guy, but that we also gave up a 1st round pick to get him! Like I said, I'm not feeling very optimistic about our local NBA team the more I watch these playoffs...these teams are at a completely different level from us.

Yeah, I think just the sheer magnitude of elite talent is scary. Hell, Doncic, LeBron, and Lillard are in that upper echelon and they're sitting on their couches right now. Guys like Ben Simmons and two-time MVP Giannis look like flawed players and they'd be massive upgrades for us. Durant, Kawhi, Paul George....the list goes on. We need Edwards to get as good as KAT to simply even stay afloat in the regular season, much less make a deep playoff run.

Q you mentioned Lilliard who when he was Mitchell's age was an inefficient scorer who didn't play D.

Good job by the Bucks closing out the 3rd quarter. Watching the last couple minutes of the 3rd quarter reminded me why I can't stand watching James Harden play. I'm so sick of seeing him fall to the floor after every shot pretending he was fouled. Officials have to stop rewarding that behavior. In fact, they need to start punishing him for it.

Wow, Jrue Holiday is really hurting his team. He looks horrendous out there tonight - terrible shooting and terrible decision-making.

The Bucks pulling away. Middleton just gave Harden a dose of his own medicine, drawing a foul on a 3-point shot. He mad the shot and he's going to the line for a possible 4-point play.

lipoli390 wrote:Good job by the Bucks closing out the 3rd quarter. Watching the last couple minutes of the 3rd quarter reminded me why I can't stand watching James Harden play. I'm so sick of seeing him fall to the floor after every shot pretending he was fouled. Officials have to stop rewarding that behavior. In fact, they need to start punishing him for it.

I think if it's an obvious flop it should be a technical foul for showing up an official. Maybe even allow the refs to review plays to see if it's egregious like they do with flagrant fouls. It will slow down the game but it MIGHT work some. Maybe have a 2nd level of flop that you get ejected for. If the implemented that it might make me want to start watching more NBA games. Lol

lipoli390 wrote:The Bucks pulling away. Middleton just gave Harden a dose of his own medicine, drawing a foul on a 3-point shot. He mad the shot and he's going to the line for a possible 4-point play.

Glad to see the bucks came back and get a convincing win.

Was it game 4 when it was basically garbage time when Giannis had that massive block and then had that sweet ally oop jam at the other end? I enjoyed that sequence.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Good job by the Bucks closing out the 3rd quarter. Watching the last couple minutes of the 3rd quarter reminded me why I can't stand watching James Harden play. I'm so sick of seeing him fall to the floor after every shot pretending he was fouled. Officials have to stop rewarding that behavior. In fact, they need to start punishing him for it.

I think if it's an obvious flop it should be a technical foul for showing up an official. Maybe even allow the refs to review plays to see if it's egregious like they do with flagrant fouls. It will slow down the game but it MIGHT work some. Maybe have a 2nd level of flop that you get ejected for. If the implemented that it might make me want to start watching more NBA games. Lol

James Harden falling down on so many of his three pointers is pathetic. He fell down on one before Giannis even got there to contest. The announcers called it out... I agree it's time for the officials to start noting it.

If the Wolves ever get to the point of having an ensemble of talented players and experienced vets good enough to potentially contend, can we hire Ty Lue please? That guy just knows how to push all the right buttons.