In the end we might regret not trading Wiggins instead of Lavine. I like both players a lot, and I think they both will be very solid NBA players. But it is so hard to compare how player X would do than player Y in certain situations. Now if Lavine was on this team instead of Wiggins, he would be the third option and how would he do if he was asked to stand in the corner like Wiggins is. We are looking at different roles, Lavine on the Bulls is asked to do almost everything for them down the clutch and damn was he good tonight and good for him.
Like everyone else has said we need to run shit in the last 5 minutes of the game, I am fine with Jimmy taking the shots but lets run him off screens, lets post him up, lets get more ball movement so teams can't load up on him like they did tonight leaving Tyus open and one possession where they left Wiggins wide open and Wiggins missed the open 3.
I don't think we are far off being a really good team, but we have some pretty bad late game execution and I think that is fixable. Like even tonight we had a wide open 3 by our best 3 point shooter and he missed it. I will take that shot 10 out of 10 times.
Don't you think with Lavine's handle Thibs would use him more rather than a diet of 100% Butler late in close games? Lavine can get where he wants and still possess the ball once he gets there unlike every Wolves player not named Butler!
WildWolf2813 wrote:to anyone arguing Wiggins vs. LaVine, deep down you know if Wiggins and Lavine swapped places tonight, Zach woulda been in the corner the entire 4th quarter while we lament Wiggins finally taking that next step.
Or Crawford would have been in the game and Zach would have been on the bench. Let's be honest.
Agreed.
Either way, the fact that Wiggins and Towns aren't getting more opportunities to get offense run through them late is an indictment on the coach, and in no way shows us anything in terms of progress for these supposed cornerstones, because if God forbid Jimmy leaves, the onus will be back on those guys to take the big shots late and they won't be any more ready than they are now.
I agree, Cool. It's beyond frustrating to watch this 1 on 5 Butler iso basketball play after play in every single 4th quarter of every single close game!!
WolvesFan21 wrote:LaVine needs to win and is clutch, Wiggins just doesn't care. Like KG said, he had to push his buttons to get him to play hard. Butler did alright, LaVine was just better.
Andrew statistically has been the wolves best clutch player every year he has been in the NBA. That statement is just not true. Like I like Zach as much as the next guy but that statement is not true.
Like Wiggins 50% FT in the last 2 minutes or his 1 for 8 on game winning shots?
His 4 years in the League he has shot 68%, 68%, 78% and 79% from the line in clutch situations, he has been in the top 2 on the team in clutch situations in FG% on the wolves every year he has been in the league.
Like I am fine if you argue against wiggins everyone has the right, but don't be dumb and bring things that are just not true to the table.
Where are you getting these numbers from because all I remember is Wiggins missing FT's late in games, last 2 minutes. Which is why I wanted to keep LaVine. LaVine was not given all the chances Wiggins was given either.
I can't believe he's higher then 70% in the last 2 minutes. I think it has to be close to 60% or under.
NBA.com has clutch stats, I was going from this year on so he is shooting 68% FTs in clutch situations this year. You are letting the emotions get in the way of being objective. Also it is so much easier to remember the times he misses than the times he makes them.
I clearly remember his FT% low in the last two minutes in previous years, enough so they would bring it up on telecasts with Jim Pete.
Whatever, just knew Zach would be a Star eventually, great shooter, FT and hard play. The complete opposite of Wiggins. This game pretty much summed up my feelings on the trade. Like losing the trade all over again.
That said, Wiggins wasn't at fault tonight. Zach was the winner, that was it.
In the end we might regret not trading Wiggins instead of Lavine. I like both players a lot, and I think they both will be very solid NBA players. But it is so hard to compare how player X would do than player Y in certain situations. Now if Lavine was on this team instead of Wiggins, he would be the third option and how would he do if he was asked to stand in the corner like Wiggins is. We are looking at different roles, Lavine on the Bulls is asked to do almost everything for them down the clutch and damn was he good tonight and good for him.
Like everyone else has said we need to run shit in the last 5 minutes of the game, I am fine with Jimmy taking the shots but lets run him off screens, lets post him up, lets get more ball movement so teams can't load up on him like they did tonight leaving Tyus open and one possession where they left Wiggins wide open and Wiggins missed the open 3.
I don't think we are far off being a really good team, but we have some pretty bad late game execution and I think that is fixable. Like even tonight we had a wide open 3 by our best 3 point shooter and he missed it. I will take that shot 10 out of 10 times.
Don't you think with Lavine's handle Thibs would use him more rather than a diet of 100% Butler late in close games? Lavine can get where he wants and still possess the ball once he gets there unlike every Wolves player not named Butler!
We saw how Thibs used Lavine. I really believe you would be seeing more Crawford at the end of games.
thedoper wrote:I can't believe the talk is about Wiggins after that game. It's not even about basketball anymore here. Ridiculous.
I think it's because Zach LaVine just provided a terrific example of why people wanted to keep him over Andrew Wiggins even with an ACL injury. He's engaged, willing, and confident in all moments. He's not scared of failure. I think as fans we appreciate that more than someone who tends to disappear when the situation gets more difficult.
And to be fair, Wiggins does have some clutch moments, but it seems that does not compare to how many games he's gone invisible in. Like tonight he started 5-5 from the field and then faded into the sunset...
Zach had a great game, he's had them before. But Wiggins disappearing is a much larger biproduct of your favorite coach than anything he does. Again, what is he supposed to do? Say sit down Thibs, i got this?
Wiggins has done impressions of Houdini long before Thibs arrived, so...
Again, I don't blame this loss on Wiggins. It's just a reminder of what we gave up and what we have now. For those that felt like LaVine was the better of the two, this game stings. That's all.
It's one game Cam! And I love Zach too. I used to defend him against the whole board when we was a first and second year player. Don't overreact so much. Zach had a lot of natural motivation in this one, kind of like when Wiggins plays Cleveland. Zach's great performance is no reason to bag on Wiggins tonight. But I knew you and SP and Wolves were going to do it. It's clearly a pattern after wins and losses.
One game of what? There was already a strong case that LaVine was better than Wiggins based on 100+ games. And we've seen Wiggins start hot only to leave the building time and time again. Tonight didn't change anything for most of us, if not everyone. And even with that said, I still don't blame Andrew for the loss. I think I've said that a handful of times already.
You overreact and get emotional literally every time someone criticizes Andrew. It's never his fault in your book. He's secretly the greatest player in the world, but we just won't know it because that terrible man named Thibodeau is holding him down. Right? And that mean guy Jimmy Butler won't give him the ball or else the most clutch player Wiggins would win the game. Poor Andrew. Give me a break.
On top of it, you sparked responses when you told SP to go fuck himself, essentially. Another example of you pouring fuel on the fire. But yet it's me who is overreacting... me who gets emotional... Right.
In the end we might regret not trading Wiggins instead of Lavine. I like both players a lot, and I think they both will be very solid NBA players. But it is so hard to compare how player X would do than player Y in certain situations. Now if Lavine was on this team instead of Wiggins, he would be the third option and how would he do if he was asked to stand in the corner like Wiggins is. We are looking at different roles, Lavine on the Bulls is asked to do almost everything for them down the clutch and damn was he good tonight and good for him.
Like everyone else has said we need to run shit in the last 5 minutes of the game, I am fine with Jimmy taking the shots but lets run him off screens, lets post him up, lets get more ball movement so teams can't load up on him like they did tonight leaving Tyus open and one possession where they left Wiggins wide open and Wiggins missed the open 3.
I don't think we are far off being a really good team, but we have some pretty bad late game execution and I think that is fixable. Like even tonight we had a wide open 3 by our best 3 point shooter and he missed it. I will take that shot 10 out of 10 times.
Don't you think with Lavine's handle Thibs would use him more rather than a diet of 100% Butler late in close games? Lavine can get where he wants and still possess the ball once he gets there unlike every Wolves player not named Butler!
I wish I could say yes, but I honestly don't think so. We have guys that can get to the lane at will in Teague (he doesn't finish all the time, hahah) but we don't run things for him, we don't post up Towns or Wiggins, or run side action for any of them. I wish I could say, ya we would run Lavine off screens but I don't think we would. I mean Lavine was 3rd on the team in clutch attempts (per game) last year on the team last year.
The thing I don't understand is why we don't run that double high post action we ran so much with Wiggins and Towns in end of game situations last year, where we would entry it in to Wiggins and Towns would run a cross screen from elbow to elbow. It worked so good last year. But damn we just run Iso Butler now, and I don't think that changes with Lavine either.
lipoli390 wrote:I agree, Cool. It's beyond frustrating to watch this 1 on 5 Butler iso basketball play after play in every single 4th quarter of every single close game!!
Yeah, I'd have no problem if we were winning these games, but it's not happening that way. Time to try something different. KAT can score just as easily as Butler can.
Also it is not really fair to Jimmy on how he was being used. Like Lavine had to take just as many shots as Bulter did in the 4th but it was how they were using him. Running him off screens, moving off the ball even though Lavine wasn't going to pass it, the help defense couldn't load up on Lavine. Just having movement at the end of the game would help so much for Butler so everyone can't just load up on Jimmy. Thats my biggest gripe is not that Jimmy is shooting it, it is how he is getting his shot.
