Pork-O-Meter

[AbeVigodaLive]

Danger.

Here are Rubio's splits by quarter in 2014. But obviously, this is pretty rudimentary with a lot of noise probably...

1st: 98 - 226 fg (43.4%)
2nd: 38 - 119 (31.9%)
3rd: 91 - 225 (40.4%)
4th/OT: 28 - 100 (28%)

I can't find other stats. Wouldn't mind seeing them if somebody else can locate them by quarter.

[Carlos Danger]

I've written Rubio was "PART" of the problem (but NOT THE PRIMARY PROBLEM) and used that stat to support it about 12 times now.

I don't know what else you want from me. I wrote nothing sensational. I wrote a fact directly related to the argument. I tempered every response with caveats and platitudes to support Ricky to avoid any undue criticism or hurt feelings about a favorite player. And I supported my take with tangible evidence.

And I still get ripped. No wonder PorkChop gets frustrated by Rubio talk. Good god man.

Right. And everyone involved in this discussion acknowledges that Rubio was part of the team that year and therefore deserves his portion of the blame. What's the best way to determine his portion of the blame? I'd just look at win shares for the year (already noted he was tied for second highest on the team that year). But you are laser focused on either the "clutch data" which I think consisted of like 100 minutes out of his 2,638 that year. Or when that small sample doesn't hold up, you shift to this "16 straight games" sample (20% of his total games played that year). I would like to look at the game logs for those 16 games. Can you tell me which ones you keep referring too? I'm curious how many minutes he played, what his +/- was etc. I don't even know what our record was those games. So - if you could kindly direct me to that sample - we can both have access to same data and I'll have a better understanding of why you keep referring back to those games.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I've written Rubio was "PART" of the problem (but NOT THE PRIMARY PROBLEM) and used that stat to support it about 12 times now.

I don't know what else you want from me. I wrote nothing sensational. I wrote a fact directly related to the argument. I tempered every response with caveats and platitudes to support Ricky to avoid any undue criticism or hurt feelings about a favorite player. And I supported my take with tangible evidence.

And I still get ripped. No wonder PorkChop gets frustrated by Rubio talk. Good god man.

Right. And everyone involved in this discussion acknowledges that Rubio was part of the team that year and therefore deserves his portion of the blame. What's the best way to determine his portion of the blame? I'd just look at win shares for the year (already noted he was tied for second highest on the team that year). But you are laser focused on either the "clutch data" which I think consisted of like 100 minutes out of his 2,638 that year. Or when that small sample doesn't hold up, you shift to this "16 straight games" sample (20% of his total games played that year). I would like to look at the game logs for those 16 games. Can you tell me which ones you keep referring too? I'm curious how many minutes he played, what his +/- was etc. I don't even know what our record was those games. So - if you could kindly direct me to that sample - we can both have access to same data and I'll have a better understanding of why you keep referring back to those games.

12/16 - 1/18.

Rubio didn't make a field goal during that time in the 4th quarter of games. The Wolves were 19 - 21 after 40 games. They won 10 games out of the 19 where they led by 30 points or more. That's insane! They lost 11 straight close games out of the 21 losses (within 4 points) during that stretch. That's insane!

That's why I said that team was a front-running team and that skewed the overall stats a bit. They simply couldn't finish off close games when they needed to for much of that season and that did them in. Whether it was bad luck or a combination of Love, Martin, Adelman, Barea, the bench... and Rubio.

There's statistical evidence to prove all (or any) of them. I provided proof where Rubio's struggles didn't seem to help much.

[Carlos Danger]

12/16 - 1/18.

Rubio didn't make a field goal during that time in the 4th quarter of games. The Wolves were 19 - 21 after 40 games. They won 10 games out of the 19 where they led by 30 points or more. That's insane! They lost 11 straight close games out of the 21 losses (within 4 points) during that stretch. That's insane!

That's why I said that team was a front-running team and that skewed the overall stats a bit. They simply couldn't finish off close games when they needed to for much of that season and that did them in. Whether it was bad luck or a combination of Love, Martin, Adelman, Barea, the bench... and Rubio.

There's statistical evidence to prove all (or any) of them. I provided proof where Rubio's struggles didn't seem to help much.

OK. I'm not sure I'll want to take the time to go through every one. But I looked at the first game of your sample (12/16/13). It looks like Rubio didn't enter the game in the 4th quarter until 17 seconds left in the game with Wolves trailing 94 to 98. According to the ESPN game log he knocks down a three pointer 12 seconds later. So it looks like he made at least one basket during those games. His only other shot appeared to be a last second heave from mid court as time expired (miss). I wouldn't put too much blame on Rubio for losing that close game. Here's the log:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400489231&period=4

[Porckchop]

If people think Ricky has been and still is this teams best player than he deserves his share of blame. In the whole world of sports the best player on said team gets the Lions share of credit and the Lions share of blame. That's the way it works. When KG wasn't getting his Wolves out of the first round it was becuz he didn't know how to take his game to the next level or the players around him. This happens all the time. If you believe Rubio to be the leader than shouldn't he get blame for this teams never ending failures the last five years?

[Carlos Danger]

If people think Ricky has been and still is this teams best player than he deserves his share of blame. In the whole world of sports the best player on said team gets the Lions share of credit and the Lions share of blame. That's the way it works. When KG wasn't getting his Wolves out of the first round it was becuz he didn't know how to take his game to the next level or the players around him. This happens all the time. If you believe Rubio to be the leader than shouldn't he get blame for this teams never ending failures the last five years?

Can you quote the person or persons that wrote Rubio has been and still is this team's best player? I personally have not seen that written - but it's possible I missed it. I normally use Win Shares as my gauge for "Best player". It's not fail proof. But it works more often than not IMO. So, during the Rubio years the "best player" would be:

2011/12 - K Love (10.0) Rubio was 4th with 2.0
2012/13 - N. Pekovic (6.7) Rubio was tied for 5th with 3.0
2013/14 - K Love (14.3) Rubio was tied for 2nd with 5.9
2014/15 - G. Dieng (4.9) Rubio only played 22 games.
2015/16 - K. Towns (1.5) Rubio is 6th with 0.9

I don't think even Rubio's biggest fans would claim he every was "the best" player in the past or present.

But I do agree with your point that the "Best Player" deserves the lion's share of the credit and blame. We will live or die going forward with Towns/Wiggins and hopefully LaVine. Rubio is just a complementary piece who's role is to facilitate those three guys and play good defense. Nothing wrong with that. There's only one ball, so there are spots for guys who don't shoot much but do other things well.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Let's get to the crux of me using the 5 years of Rubio data that started this...

Somebody compared Rubio favorably with 1st ballot HOFer Jason Kidd. Kidd's worst shooting season early in his career was equivalent to Rubio's far and away best season. In year 5, he had improved to 44.4%. I found the comparison slightly ridiculous and used stats to show that Rubio was not on Kidd's level... even as a shooter. I acknowledged that this year's small sample size should be noted. But I don't think that the last 34 games of Rubio's career should be completely ignored either. Injured or not, that's a decent enough stretch of horrid shooting considering it's not much of a departure from the other 3 seasons.

As for clutch stats from 2 years ago... I found it amusing that seemingly everybody gets blamed for that team's very bad performance in close games more than the star PG who didn't hit a 4th quarter shot in 16 straight games. That has nothing to do with his clutch stats in 2015. As I've noted, it's an example of how Rubio has a lot of excuses handed his way... which correct me if I'm wrong... is a big part of how Pork Chop's frustration with the guy. (Hence, the tongue-in-cheek reference used in the very title of the thread.)

Like most things - the truth is generally in the middle some where. I think there are plenty of critics out there (just look no further than this board, this thread). He's not getting a free pass IMO. Of course he shares blame for any losses he was a part of. But we didn't lose all those games exclusively because Rubio didn't hit a shot during the last five minutes of a game either. Rubio has never been a prime scoring option. He only averages about 9 shots a game. His impact comes from other facets. For that season, he was tied with Pek for second in Win Shares which I think is a much better overall indication of his contributions vs. using only FG% during the last 5 minutes of close games as your measuring stick. Bottom line, he makes the team better when he's on the court. But he needs to be on the court more or we have to get a much better back up plan. Perhaps the answer would be adding another starting caliber PG for next year - IDK.

By that logic we can't blame someone like Love for playing bad defense costing us the win because his impact comes from being the primary scoring option.

[Carlos Danger]

By that logic we can't blame someone like Love for playing bad defense costing us the win because his impact comes from being the primary scoring option.

Not following you on that one. IMO - it's a team game. Rarely does one person win or lose that game entirely by themselves. I think most Rubio supporters have stated multiple times he shares in any blame for losses during games he played (read through the posts). Just as he shares in the wins he helped generate. They created a stat to show that (Win Shares). I think that's a better overall way to view a players contributions vs. using only FG% during the last 5 minutes of games that are within 5 points. When you split things down to that level you are really looking at a very small and specific subset of the players overall contributions. Why would 5 minutes of FG% only be a greater indicator of player impact on a game than 30+ minutes of FG%, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, blocks, Free throws, fouls drawn etc.?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

If people think Ricky has been and still is this teams best player than he deserves his share of blame. In the whole world of sports the best player on said team gets the Lions share of credit and the Lions share of blame. That's the way it works. When KG wasn't getting his Wolves out of the first round it was becuz he didn't know how to take his game to the next level or the players around him. This happens all the time. If you believe Rubio to be the leader than shouldn't he get blame for this teams never ending failures the last five years?

I'll admit to it. I think he was our best player last season. I think he's one of our best players this season so far. Prior to last season, Kevin Love was our best player, but Rubio was right behind him.

But here's the deal. I don't want him to be our best player because I accept the fact he'll never be good enough to be the best player on a contending team. So yeah, I guess we can all blame him for not being LeBron James or Steph Curry. There, I blamed him for not being a superstar. Feel better now?

I've accepted him for what he is, which is a very good PG that can defend, distribute, and disrupt. Now if KAT and Wiggins would just hurry up and become the stars we all hope they can become, I think we'll find that a healthy Ricky Rubio will bring the best out of these guys.

[Monster]

If you want to have some reason to be hopeful about Rubio's health listen up. If not stop reading this is a stretch. Lol

Kander has been holding Rubio back this year and It's added to the frustration of Wolves fans especially since the communication level about his injuries wasn't really that great. It looks like Kander may be stepping up to communicate that stuff someone needs to. Kander said Tubio is one of the toughest guys he has worked with and that sounds like BS right? Lol Is it possible part of Rubio's issues is he pushed through his serious injuries too quickly for how his body heals? Was there times he was too tough of a SOB to keep him off the floor? Maybe he came back a little too quickly from that knee injury. The ankle last year certainly went down badly no matter what angle you look at it. This year Rubio wanted to come back 2 games earlier after the latest ankle tweet and when he did he still didn't look 100%. MAYBE holding him back will help him keep from having more long term and ultimately chronic injuries. I know it's a weak arguement maybe it's more of something that could be a little part of the success of him staying healthy if that becomes the outcome but not THE reason. Wolves haven't exactly seemed to have good luck with PG ankles so...wait this was supposed to be a positive post...