Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:We got jimmy on two years for a big potential guy coming off an acl in LaVine who they knew they'd have to pau, a potential guy in Dunn, and a pick swap.

We aren't getting a proven youngish player on a nice contract in Richardson, a young big who's shown good potential in Bam, and a 1st for what could be a rental of Jimmy.

Pick 2 of the 3. I'll take the players, and would rather it be between 3-4 teams to increase the odds in our favor of getting a player better than Bam.

I agree although I'd guess Miami values Bam and Richardson more than the pick as well so it's probably Richardson and a pick coming back plus something else. I'd be also add in Winslow to the picture but I'm not sure how Miami Value's him. If we someone got Bam and Richardson that would be pretty amazing u less we had to take on some bad salaries or something but...

I think one thing that's being overlooked in these trade reports is that if it's a simple deal Richardson plus another player...well that either isn't enough money or too much. I doubt Glen has interest in paying Luxury tax to make this deal happen. Sure they could make a move later to get back under but I don't think that's something they want to have to do unless it's a fairly small amount of money. The Wolves won't want to take Waiters (or James Johnson) back because length of contracts and a guy with value like Olynyk Miami probably wants to keep. Moving Dieng might not be a priority as much as a way to match up some salaries of guys with long term salaries or guys that Miami is willing to move. If the Wolves don't value Patton they could throw him in but I doubt Thibs and Layden want to just dump him as he was their draft pick plus he seems like a guy Glen would like as well. If Dragic is an asset the Heat is willing to give up that likely makes a 3rd team come into play. Even if the basic assets each team agrees on were figured out it could take a bit to get this done especially since the Wolves have so few contracts to trade. Taj is a theoretically easily moveable contract but I doubt he is a guy that will be considered moved in this deal. To me regardless of who is running this franchise Taj should be considered a positive asset in a deal and we are already giving up Butler I'm not sure what Miami is going to give up to make me ok with giving up another positive asset and have to likely take back another player with a contract I don't want.

Butler for Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow gets it done. It works under the CBA and doesn't put the Wolves over the luxury tax. It allows the Heat to keep their 2019 first round pick. It gives Riley the alpha star he covets to make the Heat relevent in the East. And allows the Heat to retain a critical mass of good veterans around Butler to make noise in the East. They'd have a starting lineup of Dragic, Butler, Waiters, Olynyk and Whiteside. That's good for 4th place in the East.

lipoli390 wrote:Butler for Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow gets it done. It works under the CBA and doesn't put the Wolves over the luxury tax. It allows the Heat to keep their 2019 first round pick. It gives Riley the alpha star he covets to make the Heat relevent in the East. And allows the Heat to retain a critical mass of good veterans around Butler to make noise in the East. They'd have a starting lineup of Dragic, Butler, Waiters, Olynyk and Whiteside. That's good for 4th place in the East.

I don't think Miami would give up that much. That's better than what we gave up for Butler in the first place, IMO. And we're in a much weaker position trading Butler now than the Bulls were last year.

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[*] I'd take a steadily improving two way 3 point shooter like Richardson on a solid contract over LaVine coming off an ACL about to need to get paid.
[*] I'd take Adebayo over Dunn 7 days out of the week. Did you guys see that guy play last year? He looks sure to be a solid player with the potential to be really good, although he's kind kind of a weird skill set.
[*] And Winslow is at least a capable bench wing who could still potentially improve, which is arguably worth the pick swap of a generic 7 for 15 or whatever the trade was. Markkanen looks like he could be really good, but most guys here didn't want him, and I don't think it's fair to use hindsight in cases like there.
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SameOldDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Butler for Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow gets it done. It works under the CBA and doesn't put the Wolves over the luxury tax. It allows the Heat to keep their 2019 first round pick. It gives Riley the alpha star he covets to make the Heat relevent in the East. And allows the Heat to retain a critical mass of good veterans around Butler to make noise in the East. They'd have a starting lineup of Dragic, Butler, Waiters, Olynyk and Whiteside. That's good for 4th place in the East.

I don't think Miami would give up that much. That's better than what we gave up for Butler in the first place, IMO. And we're in a much weaker position trading Butler now than the Bulls were last year.

[list]
[*] I'd take a steadily improving two way 3 point shooter like Richardson on a solid contract over LaVine coming off an ACL about to need to get paid.
[*] I'd take Adebayo over Dunn 7 days out of the week. Did you guys see that guy play last year? He looks sure to be a solid player with the potential to be really good, although he's kind kind of a weird skill set.
[*] And Winslow is at least a capable bench wing who could still potentially improve, which is arguably worth the pick swap of a generic 7 for 15 or whatever the trade was. Markkanen looks like he could be really good, but most guys here didn't want him, and I don't think it's fair to use hindsight in cases like there.
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I think we would have to include Tyus Jones for the Heat to do Lips trade. In fact I think Jones will be apart of the package with shipping Butler out. He is the only guy on this roster (besides our rookies and an injured Patton) that has a low end contract and is currently allowed to be traded.

I also think the Heat will be hesitant to trade Dragic as it leaves thems very thin at the PG position. Although I'm sure the Sun's front office would more than interested to be involved if he is.

SameOldDrew wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Butler for Richardson, Adebayo and Winslow gets it done. It works under the CBA and doesn't put the Wolves over the luxury tax. It allows the Heat to keep their 2019 first round pick. It gives Riley the alpha star he covets to make the Heat relevent in the East. And allows the Heat to retain a critical mass of good veterans around Butler to make noise in the East. They'd have a starting lineup of Dragic, Butler, Waiters, Olynyk and Whiteside. That's good for 4th place in the East.

I don't think Miami would give up that much. That's better than what we gave up for Butler in the first place, IMO. And we're in a much weaker position trading Butler now than the Bulls were last year.

[list]
[*] I'd take a steadily improving two way 3 point shooter like Richardson on a solid contract over LaVine coming off an ACL about to need to get paid.
[*] I'd take Adebayo over Dunn 7 days out of the week. Did you guys see that guy play last year? He looks sure to be a solid player with the potential to be really good, although he's kind kind of a weird skill set.
[*] And Winslow is at least a capable bench wing who could still potentially improve, which is arguably worth the pick swap of a generic 7 for 15 or whatever the trade was. Markkanen looks like he could be really good, but most guys here didn't want him, and I don't think it's fair to use hindsight in cases like there.
[/list]

I think we would have to include Tyus Jones for the Heat to do Lips trade. In fact I think Jones will be apart of the package with shipping Butler out. He is the only guy on this roster (besides our rookies and an injured Patton) that has a low end contract and is currently allowed to be traded.

I also think the Heat will be hesitant to trade Dragic as it leaves thems very thin at the PG position. Although I'm sure the Sun's front office would more than interested to be involved if he is.

MIN receive - Josh Richardson (MIA), TJ Warren (PHO) and 2019 1st round pick (MIA - Top 12 protected)

MIA receive - Jimmy Butler (MIN), Tyus Jones (MIN), and Dragan Bender (PHO)

PHO receive - Goran Dragic (MIA)

Critique away! Works salary wise and seems pretty fair for all teams involved in my opinion.

I think you all are wildly underestimating what we're going to get back for Butler. These hodgepodge Miami Heat offers just aren't good enough for me to pull the trigger and I doubt they are good enough for Minnesota's management either.

Keep in mind, the deal that was made between the Wolves and Bulls means next to nothing in determining Butler's current value. That deal is over and done with and the league as a whole has massively changed since then -- specifically the East being somewhat wide open with LeBron's departure, and the West being even better with the additions of big talent, which means teams are more pressed than ever to add stars when they're available.

This whole "Minnesota has no leverage" thing is ridiculous to me. Simple economics here. Supply and demand is in play. Supply for available marquee talent is very low and the demand for that franchise-changing talent is arguably at an all-time high. The Wolves should get back a healthy return and there should be disappointment if they don't.

Camden wrote:I think you all are wildly underestimating what we're going to get back for Butler. These hodgepodge Miami Heat offers just aren't good enough for me to pull the trigger and I doubt they are good enough for Minnesota's management either.

Keep in mind, the deal that was made between the Wolves and Bulls means next to nothing in determining Butler's current value. That deal is over and done with and the league as a whole has massively changed since then -- specifically the East being somewhat wide open with LeBron's departure, and the West being even better with the additions of big talent, which means teams are more pressed than ever to add stars when they're available.

This whole "Minnesota has no leverage" thing is ridiculous to me. Simple economics here. Supply and demand is in play. Supply for available marquee talent is very low and the demand for that franchise-changing talent is arguably at an all-time high. The Wolves should get back a healthy return and there should be disappointment if they don't.

Perhaps this is why things are taking a bit longer than expected. While we can come up with all sorts of nefarious scenarios of Thibs purposely undermining a Butler trade, may be he's holding firm until we get the absolute best deal available.

"ESPN Reporting w/ Zach Lowe: Minnesota's asking price for Jimmy Butler remains too steep for teams. Minny seeks quality vets/top prospects/future assets/cap relief. Too high a price for interested teams, including Miami. Sources are skeptical of Thibodeau's desire to make deal."

https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1045302851663278080

Camden wrote:I think you all are wildly underestimating what we're going to get back for Butler. These hodgepodge Miami Heat offers just aren't good enough for me to pull the trigger and I doubt they are good enough for Minnesota's management either.

Keep in mind, the deal that was made between the Wolves and Bulls means next to nothing in determining Butler's current value. That deal is over and done with and the league as a whole has massively changed since then -- specifically the East being somewhat wide open with LeBron's departure, and the West being even better with the additions of big talent, which means teams are more pressed than ever to add stars when they're available.

This whole "Minnesota has no leverage" thing is ridiculous to me. Simple economics here. Supply and demand is in play. Supply for available marquee talent is very low and the demand for that franchise-changing talent is arguably at an all-time high. The Wolves should get back a healthy return and there should be disappointment if they don't.

I have to agree with Cam on this. Not only R a lot of these underwhelming, many really gives us no reason to make a deal. While, the media say we have no leverage, and teams with cap space next season can wait us out, there is only one Jimmy, and so only one team will get him. Jimmy wants the five year deal, and he only gets that if he is traded now.

The wolves can hold on to him and let him walk next season if Josh Richardson and bad contracts are all that is being offered. You don't make deals to obtain mediocre guys you can sign in the off season. Jimmy is the prize!

Why aren't we trying to deal with a team like SAC who has everything we would want?