Minnesota Sports Forum

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 6:39 pm The rest of the team has to play with Ju and NAZ on the court at the same time. Rudy doesn't. Very noisy stat.

Our defense with Rudy on the floor is tied for 3rd in the NBA, which is objectively elite. And while he doesn't have to play next to Julius and Naz at the same time, he always has one of them out there when he's playing, so he's getting very little help from the other big.

Rudy has basically been a walking top 5 defense his entire career. That doesn't make him the best player on our team, but he's probably our most important one during the regular season in terms of eating innings and grinding out wins, which matters when it comes to playoff seeding.

Guys, I'm not a Rudy hater. I was in favor of the trade that brought him here. But suppose we had a good 2-way big, would we need Rudy to play much?

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 8:16 pm

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:33 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 7:14 pm

With all due respect, your comments are nonsensical. You don't know how to apply statistics. Every players numbers would be a lot better if we had a competent 2nd big. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but Rudy isn't one of our top 3 players.

I get that, but shouldn't they simply out score the other team by tearing up the net? Small lineups are the rage the last ten years. Space and pace 5 out lineups. Shoot the 3 ball. You are allowed to be better then Rudy!

However, yes I agree, neither is a 5, neither can defend the rim or rebound well enough. Still Rudy is without question our most important player still. The stats are so lopsided it's not even close. Had they been close I might side with you, but it's simply not close. Your competent backup big also might really hurt their offense (Naz and Ju, etc..) too, two sides of the coin.

Is the paint now clogged with hypothetical backup 5 in there? It might not work well either. However at this point I'm not against trading for (backup 5) or playing even Joan. The defense in the non Rudy minutes has been so bad we need something to change. Either these guys start to step up or we must make a roster or player move.

By "lopsided sided" are we talking about net rating? Cause that on its own does not an argument make.

Absent Ant, Randle has been absolutely CRITICAL to the teams offense. It's easy to make an argument for him as the most important player so far.
Jaden has been the only competent 2 way player thus far, one could make an argument for him.
And simply by virtue of him having missed most of the games so far this season, Ant has clear argument as most important. Not only for his offense, but because they have desperately been missing perimeter defense.

Ru has grown on me immensely over the last few years, but the stark contrast in defense on/off numbers is not evidence of his excellence, but of just how imbalanced this roster is

Net rating matters over a long period, even more so over several years as teammate noise can be somewhat if not mostly mitigated. Is not surprising that LeBron, Curry, KG, Jokic amongst other superstars lead the stat all time. Rudy is up in the ranks even.

Saying the stat doesn't matter is ridiculous. The best players of all time lead the stat. Including Rudy who is the best defensive player of the last ten years. Do you guys really not understand how he's the best in the NBA defender over the last decade and it's not even arguable?

The disrespect for Rudy is incredible. A top defender in NBA history, one of the best ever to play. I don't get it.

I didn't say the stat doesn't matter.
I'm asking you to clarify the obvious statistical measures that say he's clearly the most important player.
Net Rating is a useful stat and tends to bear over large samples but it's still too early this season and too noisy to be indicative of much.

But I don't want to be pedantic about this, cause Rudy is a great asset for the team and obviously a generational defender, but the problems lie in the extremely unbalanced roster and the starkness in his on/off numbers has more to do with that then him playing at an elite level, cause honestly he hasn't been this year.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 10:43 pm I didn't say the stat doesn't matter.
I'm asking you to clarify the obvious statistical measures that say he's clearly the most important player.
Net Rating is a useful stat and tends to bear over large samples but it's still too early this season and too noisy to be indicative of much.

But I don't want to be pedantic about this, cause Rudy is a great asset for the team and obviously a generational defender, but the problems lie in the extremely unbalanced roster and the starkness in his on/off numbers has more to do with that then him playing at an elite level, cause honestly he hasn't been this year.

He's still elite, maybe not DPOY this season that looks to be Wemby. I think we're so use to him being that great we take it for granted.

Do you even realize he's easily arguably a top 3 defender in the history of the NBA (4 time DPOY)? Not just elite, the elite of elite. His bad is still elite. You realize you're watching the best of the best to ever play on defense? Maybe the best ever? Think about it. Thousands and thousands of NBA players and we have maybe the best EVER to play defense. I honestly think we are incredibly disrespectful.

Cool even said he sucks and he might be the best to ever play defense on earth? WHAT world do I live in?

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 11:01 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 10:43 pm I didn't say the stat doesn't matter.
I'm asking you to clarify the obvious statistical measures that say he's clearly the most important player.
Net Rating is a useful stat and tends to bear over large samples but it's still too early this season and too noisy to be indicative of much.

But I don't want to be pedantic about this, cause Rudy is a great asset for the team and obviously a generational defender, but the problems lie in the extremely unbalanced roster and the starkness in his on/off numbers has more to do with that then him playing at an elite level, cause honestly he hasn't been this year.

He's still elite, maybe not DPOY this season that looks to be Wemby. I think we're so use to him being that great we take it for granted.

Do you even realize he's easily arguably a top 3 defender in the history of the NBA (4 time DPOY)? Not just elite, the elite of elite. His bad is still elite. You realize you're watching the best of the best to ever play on defense? Maybe the best ever? Think about it. Thousands and thousands of NBA players and we have maybe the best EVER to play defense. I honestly think we are incredibly disrespectful.

Cool even said he sucks and he might be the best to ever play defense on earth? WHAT world do I live in?

Let me say it this way. He plays the sport of basketball, and he can't catch the ball. I remember a young Andrew Wiggins stuffing him through the basket. His teammates are afraid to pass him the ball unless it's a lob for a dunk. I think we would score just as many points if he never crossed the half court line.

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 11:01 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 10:43 pm I didn't say the stat doesn't matter.
I'm asking you to clarify the obvious statistical measures that say he's clearly the most important player.
Net Rating is a useful stat and tends to bear over large samples but it's still too early this season and too noisy to be indicative of much.

But I don't want to be pedantic about this, cause Rudy is a great asset for the team and obviously a generational defender, but the problems lie in the extremely unbalanced roster and the starkness in his on/off numbers has more to do with that then him playing at an elite level, cause honestly he hasn't been this year.

He's still elite, maybe not DPOY this season that looks to be Wemby. I think we're so use to him being that great we take it for granted.

Do you even realize he's easily arguably a top 3 defender in the history of the NBA (4 time DPOY)? Not just elite, the elite of elite. His bad is still elite. You realize you're watching the best of the best to ever play on defense? Maybe the best ever? Think about it. Thousands and thousands of NBA players and we have maybe the best EVER to play defense. I honestly think we are incredibly disrespectful.

Cool even said he sucks and he might be the best to ever play defense on earth? WHAT world do I live in?

You're conflating what I'm saying about the state of team with me saying something bad about Rudy's legacy. He's a future HoF and it's well deserved. I also am a fan! It's not pretty but he's effective!

I also think it's an extremely alarming thing that this team is still so dependant on him to even be able to function on the defensive end

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:08 am

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 11:01 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 10:43 pm I didn't say the stat doesn't matter.
I'm asking you to clarify the obvious statistical measures that say he's clearly the most important player.
Net Rating is a useful stat and tends to bear over large samples but it's still too early this season and too noisy to be indicative of much.

But I don't want to be pedantic about this, cause Rudy is a great asset for the team and obviously a generational defender, but the problems lie in the extremely unbalanced roster and the starkness in his on/off numbers has more to do with that then him playing at an elite level, cause honestly he hasn't been this year.

He's still elite, maybe not DPOY this season that looks to be Wemby. I think we're so use to him being that great we take it for granted.

Do you even realize he's easily arguably a top 3 defender in the history of the NBA (4 time DPOY)? Not just elite, the elite of elite. His bad is still elite. You realize you're watching the best of the best to ever play on defense? Maybe the best ever? Think about it. Thousands and thousands of NBA players and we have maybe the best EVER to play defense. I honestly think we are incredibly disrespectful.

Cool even said he sucks and he might be the best to ever play defense on earth? WHAT world do I live in?

You're conflating what I'm saying about the state of team with me saying something bad about Rudy's legacy. He's a future HoF and it's well deserved. I also am a fan! It's not pretty but he's effective!

I also think it's an extremely alarming thing that this team is still so dependant on him to even be able to function on the defensive end

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

Rudy is about the 50th highest paid player in the NBA this season, with the likes of DeAndre Ayton, Brandon Ingram, and Michael Porter Jr. making more than him. He's now on a different contract than when he first came to Minnesota and his value should be measured accordingly. And I think he's a solid value and it reflects a mild regression of his skills given his age.

The issue is that his current value to the team far exceeds what it should be because of the roster construction and awful team defense being played around him. I'd love to see him play 26-28 MPG as a defensive tone setter to start halves, but then give Finch a ton of optionality to go away from him if the matchups and situation calls for it.

If Finch can't fix it soon, then the job falls squarely on Connelly since he's the one that put this roster together and didn't address any of these imbalances during the offseason.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:40 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:08 am

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 06, 2025 11:01 pm

He's still elite, maybe not DPOY this season that looks to be Wemby. I think we're so use to him being that great we take it for granted.

Do you even realize he's easily arguably a top 3 defender in the history of the NBA (4 time DPOY)? Not just elite, the elite of elite. His bad is still elite. You realize you're watching the best of the best to ever play on defense? Maybe the best ever? Think about it. Thousands and thousands of NBA players and we have maybe the best EVER to play defense. I honestly think we are incredibly disrespectful.

Cool even said he sucks and he might be the best to ever play defense on earth? WHAT world do I live in?

You're conflating what I'm saying about the state of team with me saying something bad about Rudy's legacy. He's a future HoF and it's well deserved. I also am a fan! It's not pretty but he's effective!

I also think it's an extremely alarming thing that this team is still so dependant on him to even be able to function on the defensive end

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

Rudy is about the 50th highest paid player in the NBA this season, with the likes of DeAndre Ayton, Brandon Ingram, and Michael Porter Jr. making more than him. He's now on a different contract than when he first came to Minnesota and his value should be measured accordingly. And I think he's a solid value and it reflects a mild regression of his skills given his age.

The issue is that his current value to the team far exceeds what it should be because of the roster construction and awful team defense being played around him. I'd love to see him play 26-28 MPG as a defensive tone setter to start halves, but then give Finch a ton of optionality to go away from him if the matchups and situation calls for it.

If Finch can't fix it soon, then the job falls squarely on Connelly since he's the one that put this roster together and didn't address any of these imbalances during the offseason.

Not only did Connelly not address the problem... he used up a lot more money to keep the problem intact.

Naz Reid is as much of a 3 on the court as he is a 5 at this point. And Randle isn't tall enough to defend centers. It's a glaring problem that the Wolves knew about and leaned into instead of trying to solve.

The Wolves last two wins were partly because they went to a zone defense late. That's fine, and it's needed at times during a season. But it's a stopgap measure, which will only work vs. certain teams, and only certain nights vs. those teams.

It's not really something they can point to and count on consistently. I don't have any answers... but the defense has been abysmal so far this season. The Wolves will figure things out enough to stack some wins, but I don't see how they can be seen as a legitimate championship contender (or even deep playoff team) with the glaring holes on the roster right now (defense w/o Rudy and the PG spot.)

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 8:26 am

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:40 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:08 am

You're conflating what I'm saying about the state of team with me saying something bad about Rudy's legacy. He's a future HoF and it's well deserved. I also am a fan! It's not pretty but he's effective!

I also think it's an extremely alarming thing that this team is still so dependant on him to even be able to function on the defensive end

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

Rudy is about the 50th highest paid player in the NBA this season, with the likes of DeAndre Ayton, Brandon Ingram, and Michael Porter Jr. making more than him. He's now on a different contract than when he first came to Minnesota and his value should be measured accordingly. And I think he's a solid value and it reflects a mild regression of his skills given his age.

The issue is that his current value to the team far exceeds what it should be because of the roster construction and awful team defense being played around him. I'd love to see him play 26-28 MPG as a defensive tone setter to start halves, but then give Finch a ton of optionality to go away from him if the matchups and situation calls for it.

If Finch can't fix it soon, then the job falls squarely on Connelly since he's the one that put this roster together and didn't address any of these imbalances during the offseason.

Not only did Connelly not address the problem... he used up a lot more money to keep the problem intact.

Naz Reid is as much of a 3 on the court as he is a 5 at this point. And Randle isn't tall enough to defend centers. It's a glaring problem that the Wolves knew about and leaned into instead of trying to solve.

The Wolves last two wins were partly because they went to a zone defense late. That's fine, and it's needed at times during a season. But it's a stopgap measure, which will only work vs. certain teams, and only certain nights vs. those teams.

It's not really something they can point to and count on consistently. I don't have any answers... but the defense has been abysmal so far this season. The Wolves will figure things out enough to stack some wins, but I don't see how they can be seen as a legitimate championship contender (or even deep playoff team) with the glaring holes on the roster right now (defense w/o Rudy and the PG spot.)

The potential answer is playing down in Iowa tonight. Just sayin'...

I will not deny the Wolves have a weakness that could or should be addressed. I complained about the NAZ/Randle combo many times last year and wasn't thrilled with the prospect of doing it again this year. Although I love the foresight TC used in the draft. But I think we are overreacting just a bit. NAZ seems to have taken a dip from his normally putrid defense, but we can give him some time to come back to the mean given his sister's death. ANT missed 5 of those games, and was not helpful in his first game back. There is the defensive adjustment required with not having NAW (even though NAW's minutes were limited). But the biggest factor, IMO, is the schedule. 5 of the first 8 games have been against top-6 teams in each conference, 3 of which were against teams currently holding home-court advantage in the first round of the playoffs, skewing our offensive and defensive numbers for the worse. All those factors have fueled our current perceived crisis.

To the rescue! The next 4 games are against non-playoff teams. I suspect we will have a "return to the mean" feeling about this team after those 4 games, heading into a re-match with Denver.