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Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:38 am
by Monster
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:I think with Thibs in charge, the identity would be more of a working-class, tough, physical squad that can really defend. We have exactly two players on the roster that exemplify that motif.
And that identity comes from a previous Thibs-led organization?
Sadly... this is what I see as the Wolves current "identity"... paper contenders. Consider:
- KAT says all the right things. And he looks like a star on the court at times. But something is missing. His comments don't always match up with on-court play. He still doesn't do the little things that seem to matter... defense, picks, et al. But he says he's gonna work on them, so I'm sure it'll be fine.
- Thibs says all the right things. He has a track record of success playing a certain style. But something is missing. Sure, his style is antiquated for 2015... but he's still a top coach in the league.
- Wiggins says all the right things... and makes the right promises. But something is missing. He hasn't made the "leap" that young max guys are expected to make. Some might even point to areas of regression. But he does look really athletic and smooth and stuff.
- Butler says all the right things. And his effort is off the charts at times. But something may be missing. His hero ball antics reached near-historic levels of inefficiency. But he will continue to harp on everybody else to work as hard and be as good as he is, so I'm sure the message will stick this time.
To be fair... Wiggins and KAT are still young, if not experienced NBA players. And Thibs is only entering Year 3 as the GM and Coach... and Butler is entering Year 2.
Developing an organization identity takes time to develop sometimes. So there's hope there. But I wouldn't insult anybody if they were wondering if the Wolves identity was one of fraudulence or antiquated blowhardness.
Lots of good points about the identity and culture and it's probably worth saying again this franchise has struggled with that for years pretty much all of the last 14 years. Sure sometimes Gms and coaches are able to come in and start a turnaround right away. The reality is that often regardless of the organization there are problems that tend to linger and take time to overcome. We need to see something a little more clear this next season than winning some more games to feel more confident that we are going in the right direction when it comes to identity of this franchise. It's just been a turnstile for so so long.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:53 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Thibs also sabotages his own efforts at creating an identity by signing players like Jamaal Crawford. I get that he was a great lockerroom presence and mentor, but at the end of the day, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. So a team needing reliable 3-point shooting and defense last offseason signs a 6th man that is good at neither and re-signs a player that is good at neither (Shabazz). Unbelievable.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:19 am
by Monster
Q12543 wrote:Thibs also sabotages his own efforts at creating an identity by signing players like Jamaal Crawford. I get that he was a great lockerroom presence and mentor, but at the end of the day, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. So a team needing reliable 3-point shooting and defense last offseason signs a 6th man that is good at neither and re-signs a player that is good at neither (Shabazz). Unbelievable.
Yeah there is some truth here. I think to some extent both signings make sense in the context of building the team. Crawford gives you a vet that can get his shot and is a guard that even though his percentages aren't spectacular he can get them up and will jack up 3's which this team needed. With Bazz he plays with some toughness in a way and I think Thibs really thought he was a young player that he could bring in cheaply and could be a guy that could be part of a bench group going forward...it just didn't work. Basically they went for a couple players they thought were good value players in one sense or another. I think this offseason they need to be more concentrated on fit. Defense, 3 point shooting...ok Derrick Rose is probably coming back and MAYBE he can at least play some solid D but even though he looked solid in his games here I can't assume he will be anymore than adaquate there. If they get him for the vet min though I can live with that. But yeah back to your point they need to add more to their culture with guys that fit more. MGH and Jefferson seem to be young players that fit and that hopefully keeps them here cheaply next year. We will see what happens. Like you point out in your post And I have mentioned a number of times Thibs has been a somewhat strange and even at times welcome dichotomy. This coming season we need more things to come together. It's on Thibs and Layden to make some moves to facilitate it happening.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:01 pm
by Duke13
Don't confuse "toughness" for barreling into the opponent and playing selfish out of control basketball. Never once have I though he was "tough"!!
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:10 pm
by Monster
Duke13 wrote:Don't confuse "toughness" for barreling into the opponent and playing selfish out of control basketball. Never once have I though he was "tough"!!
Yeah you are right that's not the correct term. How about aggressive? I guess the point I meant was at least he played with some physicality.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:37 pm
by mrhockey89
Q12543 wrote:Thibs also sabotages his own efforts at creating an identity by signing players like Jamaal Crawford. I get that he was a great lockerroom presence and mentor, but at the end of the day, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. So a team needing reliable 3-point shooting and defense last offseason signs a 6th man that is good at neither and re-signs a player that is good at neither (Shabazz). Unbelievable.
I also find it a bit ironic that he got rid of Rubio if the premise is that he wants high effort players who can play defense.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:08 pm
by Lipoli390
Big win for the Cavs tonight in Toronto.
And how about Steph Curry. He's out for a month, enters tonight's game mid-way through the 1st quarter, puts up his first shot and nothing but net for 3 points. That's what superstars do.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:11 pm
by Lipoli390
The Rockets aren't going to beat the Warriors. With Curry's return tonight, you can see the old Warriors magic returning. And they were pretty dam good in game 1 without Curry.
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:27 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
lipoli390 wrote:Big win for the Cavs tonight in Toronto.
And how about Steph Curry. He's out for a month, enters tonight's game mid-way through the 1st quarter, puts up his first shot and nothing but net for 3 points. That's what superstars do.
Raptors were 2 for their last 20 or something like that? And several were layups. I think the 7-footer, Valunciadfadsafasnous had 5 or 6 missed bunnies in the 4th quarter.
The Cavs are DEEP inside the Raptors heads. Cleveland will be back in the Finals yet again. The East just opens up for them every year. Sure, the Cavs get credit... but it's been pretty ridiculous. The best potential competition is a team led by what's essentially two 1st year players?
Re: Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:26 pm
by thedoper
Davis is so good. Must be nice for your defense to have someone who covers that much ground. Towns plays small, almost flat footed. Where Davis is like he's on a trampoline.