Adrian Payen

[Lipoli390]

why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick

It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.

Obviously, Lip?!?

There are numerous reasons Atlanta was willing to move Payne, and none of them had anything to do with Payne's ability to play in this league. It was about a plethora of PFs, salaries, and a roster spot for an overseas prospect they want to bring over next season.

And, yeah, Flip's comment about about pick-and-roll immediately brought to mind the similar about Bennett, although that comment came from Cleveland...

Tim - There's a 32-year old PF on the Hawks roster named Pero Antic who has averaged nearly 17 minutes per game in 40 games while shooting under 40% from the field and grabbing 3 boards per game. One of the other PFs on their roster is the well-known highly coveted Mike Scott who has averaged around 15 minutes per in 50 game appearances, pulling down a whopping 2.5 boards per game. Yet Payne can only find his way into only three games for about 5 minutes each??!! I'd say it's obvious the Hawks coaching staff did not view Payne as a back-up PF at this level at this point in his career.

[bleedspeed]

I would bet the Hawks felt Mike Muscala was a better prospect. I know I would of rather had him for a second rounder.

This is the second trade that made me wonder why. The first was the Brewer trade. We should have got one of their young bigs in that trade instead of Troy Daniels. We should have been able to get Clint Capela at minimum. He is averaging 15pts/9boards/3 blocks a game in the D-League and is only 20 years old.

I really hope Flip is right about this one though. I do.

[MikkeMan]

Absolutely right, Bleed! We're looking amateurish again. But I sure hope I'm wrong about Payne and that he turns out to be a really good rotation PF who rebounds and protects the rim - two things he didn't do particularly well as a college senior.

Lip,
Payne was OK defensive rebounder even in his senior year. His defensive rebounding % was better than for example what Dieng had in any of his college years and comparable to Mason Plumlee. Both Dieng and Plumlee have been quite good rebounders in NBA.

Payne's overall rebounding numbers were not that impressive mainly because he played much less minutes per game than Dieng or Plumlee played and he had much less offensive rebounds compared to them. He had clearly better offensive rebounding numbers as a junior, so I think this drop was mainly because his increased role in offense and especially increased amount of 3-pointers, which means that he was in much more often in bad position to crab offensive boards. Anyway Wolves do good job currently in offensive boards but they would need help in defensive rebounding, so Payne should fit nicely for this role.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

why does it cost us a premium to get marginal players? A first for a backup PF? I like Payne, don't get me wrong, but between Payne and Bjelica (nevermind Young and Bennett), this better not mean we won't take a PF if there's one available with our pick

It's even worse than that, Wolf. We don't even know if Payne can be a back-up PF in the League. Obviously Atlanta didn't think so.

Obviously, Lip?!?

There are numerous reasons Atlanta was willing to move Payne, and none of them had anything to do with Payne's ability to play in this league. It was about a plethora of PFs, salaries, and a roster spot for an overseas prospect they want to bring over next season.

And, yeah, Flip's comment about about pick-and-roll immediately brought to mind the similar about Bennett, although that comment came from Cleveland...

Tim - There's a 32-year old PF on the Hawks roster named Pero Antic who has averaged nearly 17 minutes per game in 40 games while shooting under 40% from the field and grabbing 3 boards per game. One of the other PFs on their roster is the well-known highly coveted Mike Scott who has averaged around 15 minutes per in 50 game appearances, pulling down a whopping 2.5 boards per game. Yet Payne can only find his way into only three games for about 5 minutes each??!! I'd say it's obvious the Hawks coaching staff did not view Payne as a back-up PF at this level at this point in his career.

At this point in his career? The guy is a rookie. His career just started. There are many coaches in this league that just don't play rookies. A perfect example was Adelman and Bazz. Even after Bazz showed to be a useful player on the court Adelman was still throwing DNP-CD's at him. The Hawks are the best team in the East. It's not surprising they are choosing to go with veterans over a rookie. McDermott can't buy time for the Bulls and they are thin at the position Doug plays. Does that mean he can't be a good player? Is it his fault he has an old school coach who doesn't trust rookies? The Hawks simply turned an asset they weren't using into a future asset they may be able to use and a roster spot they could choose to use this year on a guy like Ray Allen or bring over yet another prospect big next year. I think people are looking way too far into the meaning of the Hawks trading him away and are trying to use that as evidence to predict his ability when he's played 3 games this year. That seems like a fantastic sample size to predict ability.

[AbeVigodaLive]

More deck furniture being moved.

I see some Wes Johnson similarities:

- Neither guy topped 16 ppg at any level of basketball, including high school.
- Both had only 1 "good" season.
- Both were late bloomers and already 23 when the Wolves got them.

I don't know much about Payne. But he's never been a dominant force. There's little chance he becomes anything close to that suddenly at age 24 against the best competition he's ever faced.

Maybe he has legit range and size and can add depth. Maybe the Wolves pick is so protected they'll never even lose it. We'll see.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Who knows with any of these rookies. They could be great, they could be average, they could be busts. Making a call on these guys before they've played much in the NBA is premature. Payne's longer college career suggests a potentially lower ceiling (although that's not always the case), but a more sure thing than Bennett, who hasn't proven much in a year and a half of NBA ball. And yes, Bennett's numbers as a freshman were better than Payne's even later, but it's not like Bennett has blown everybody away in the NBA. Have to be careful about making these predictions.

I've seen a lot of MSU ball in the last few years because my buddy's a fan. Payne was a good college player and I think he could be a good NBA player. Probably not a starter on a good team, but at least a good backup big who can stretch the floor and brings some real intangibles, effort, heart, etc. Could remind some people of Taj Gibson or Draymond Green and should at least bring what Dante brought us (which is more than we've gotten from Bennett and, at times this season, Thad as well). Payne also showed improvement each year at college, so I think he's shown the ability to adjust and improve his game which all these young guys need to do. Plus his play was limited by mono last year, so even his best year could have been better if he were healthy.

It's a bit of a head-scratcher with Thad and Bennett already on the roster. But half this board is ready to chuck Thad for pennies on the dollar at this point (he's only here one more year if that most likely), and Bennett's not looking great, so it's not like the position is on lockdown or anything. It's always a bit of a gamble to borrow from the future like this, but sometimes you have to take those risks. We'll see how this one turns out in a year or two.

[Carlos Danger]

At this point in his career? The guy is a rookie. His career just started. There are many coaches in this league that just don't play rookies. A perfect example was Adelman and Bazz. Even after Bazz showed to be a useful player on the court Adelman was still throwing DNP-CD's at him. The Hawks are the best team in the East. It's not surprising they are choosing to go with veterans over a rookie. McDermott can't buy time for the Bulls and they are thin at the position Doug plays. Does that mean he can't be a good player? Is it his fault he has an old school coach who doesn't trust rookies? The Hawks simply turned an asset they weren't using into a future asset they may be able to use and a roster spot they could choose to use this year on a guy like Ray Allen or bring over yet another prospect big next year. I think people are looking way too far into the meaning of the Hawks trading him away and are trying to use that as evidence to predict his ability when he's played 3 games this year. That seems like a fantastic sample size to predict ability.

Agree. Not only is he a rookie, but I just read today that he didn't start playing Basketball until his Junior year in High School. We'll see. We certainly can use the length on this team.

I don't hate the deal. Payne was drafted #15 this past year and I believe we gave up a top 14 protected pick to get him. I want to see him play before I can make any sort of comments on the deal.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'd have an easier time supporting this deal if it was for a young project player with great upside, like a LaVine at PF, if you will. Or a guy that had already shown SOMETHING at the NBA level.

I just feel like there are guys like Payne to be had every year. What makes Payne a guy that needed to be acquired right now?

Not hating the deal. Not hating on Payne. Just expressing some thoughts.

[TheGrey08]

I don't think we have to agree with Flip blindly. i am excited to see what he can do, but we are fooling ourselves if we think he is a better prospect then Vonlesh or Randle who were both freshmen. I really like adding him. I am not sure about the lottery protected pick. I would have felt better with a top 20 protected pick.

That's exactly what I thought. Top 20 protection and I wouldn't have thought twice. That said I don't think it was a bad deal or anything either. It's at the very least an OK deal b/c at worst it's a 15 for a 15.

[TheGrey08]

Picks typically outside the lottery are typically worth more then the players you draft. I would have thought someone like T Jones or Vonlesh would be available for this type of pick. We gave up a first for a player that didn't even start all of his D-League games and was beaten out by a second rounder that plays the same position from the year before. Seems like a premium.

On another note. I wish Bud would ask to be traded and agree to opt out.

Rumor was Bud has asked to be traded. Heard it recently, but I forget where.