Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Thibs was a nightmare who had to go and by that I mean he was a terrible GM who traded away a future all-star Zach Lavine just to rent Jimmy for one season to inflate his wins, drafted Dunn, Okogie and some washed center ahead of Jarrett Allen and John Collins. That playoff season not only cost the Wolves Lavine but the opportunity to draft Michael Porter. Thibs as a coach is certainly far better than Thibs as a GM, but he still was a poor fit here. He was touted as a defensive savant yet had very little impact on that end. Thibs also rewarded the young trio of KAT, Lavine and Wiggs with virtually unlimited playing time even when they coasted on defense. Those are not the habits I want installed on three young athletic talented youngsters. So I was glad to see the Thibs era come to a close even if he has had some success as a coach elsewhere and renting Jimmy to make the playoffs here is not all that impressive.

KG, thank you for providing some much needed reality about Tom Thibodeau. I've only been around these parts for a year, but there seems to be a narrative on this board that Thibs won here. He didn't, and to say otherwise is revisionist history. Jimmy Butler won here just as he has won every season of his career...he has never been part of a losing team. But Thibs did not. Yes, the Wolves had a 47-35 record in the one full season Butler played here, but without Butler Thibs coached the Wolves to a pathetic 50-72 record...that's not winning, boys. He took over what he called "the best young roster in the league" and coached them to a sterling 31-51 record...a whopping 2 more wins than Sam Mitchell the previous year despite the improvement we always expect young players to make. Then after Butler led us to our one winning record, Thibs was on his way to another losing season when Glen realized he wasn't going to win here and that the fans were demanding a change. Let's not forget how unpleasant it was to be at Target Center when Thibs was coaching sans Butler. Frankly it was much more fun watching the Wolves lose with Sam Mitchell and Ryan Saunders than it was watching them lose with Thibs...and any season ticket holder here will say the same thing.

Give Thibs credit for turning the Knicks around...he deserves a lot of credit for what he has accomplished there. But please stop saying that Thibs "won" here, because without Butler, he was a disaster, and I don't remember many unhappy people at Target Center after Glen sent him packing.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:
How can you disagree on the DLO trade? It was a disaster. Again, those exact words repeated on the NBA network today. We've been building for 17 years. It's time to let the new owners come in and set their own culture. As someone else said, the bar isn't very high. Let's see what happens with a true commitment to winning, and fresh blood overseeing the whole operation.

Q12543 wrote:

FNG wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Thibs was a nightmare who had to go and by that I mean he was a terrible GM who traded away a future all-star Zach Lavine just to rent Jimmy for one season to inflate his wins, drafted Dunn, Okogie and some washed center ahead of Jarrett Allen and John Collins. That playoff season not only cost the Wolves Lavine but the opportunity to draft Michael Porter. Thibs as a coach is certainly far better than Thibs as a GM, but he still was a poor fit here. He was touted as a defensive savant yet had very little impact on that end. Thibs also rewarded the young trio of KAT, Lavine and Wiggs with virtually unlimited playing time even when they coasted on defense. Those are not the habits I want installed on three young athletic talented youngsters. So I was glad to see the Thibs era come to a close even if he has had some success as a coach elsewhere and renting Jimmy to make the playoffs here is not all that impressive.

KG, thank you for providing some much needed reality about Tom Thibodeau. I've only been around these parts for a year, but there seems to be a narrative on this board that Thibs won here. He didn't, and to say otherwise is revisionist history. Jimmy Butler won here just as he has won every season of his career...he has never been part of a losing team. But Thibs did not. Yes, the Wolves had a 47-35 record in the one full season Butler played here, but without Butler Thibs coached the Wolves to a pathetic 50-72 record...that's not winning, boys. He took over what he called "the best young roster in the league" and coached them to a sterling 31-51 record...a whopping 2 more wins than Sam Mitchell the previous year despite the improvement we always expect young players to make. Then after Butler led us to our one winning record, Thibs was on his way to another losing season when Glen realized he wasn't going to win here and that the fans were demanding a change. Let's not forget how unpleasant it was to be at Target Center when Thibs was coaching sans Butler. Frankly it was much more fun watching the Wolves lose with Sam Mitchell and Ryan Saunders than it was watching them lose with Thibs...and any season ticket holder here will say the same thing.

Give Thibs credit for turning the Knicks around...he deserves a lot of credit for what he has accomplished there. But please stop saying that Thibs "won" here, because without Butler, he was a disaster, and I don't remember many unhappy people at Target Center after Glen sent him packing.

Mmmm, FNG sounds more and more like a regular poster from the past when I read a post like this. Are you sure you've only been around for a year? ;-)

TheGrey08 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:
How can you disagree on the DLO trade? It was a disaster. Again, those exact words repeated on the NBA network today. We've been building for 17 years. It's time to let the new owners come in and set their own culture. As someone else said, the bar isn't very high. Let's see what happens with a true commitment to winning, and fresh blood overseeing the whole operation.

It was only a bad deal because he included a barely protected 1st and not at most a lotto protected pick. I wouldn't hated it at that point.

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

FNG wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Thibs was a nightmare who had to go and by that I mean he was a terrible GM who traded away a future all-star Zach Lavine just to rent Jimmy for one season to inflate his wins, drafted Dunn, Okogie and some washed center ahead of Jarrett Allen and John Collins. That playoff season not only cost the Wolves Lavine but the opportunity to draft Michael Porter. Thibs as a coach is certainly far better than Thibs as a GM, but he still was a poor fit here. He was touted as a defensive savant yet had very little impact on that end. Thibs also rewarded the young trio of KAT, Lavine and Wiggs with virtually unlimited playing time even when they coasted on defense. Those are not the habits I want installed on three young athletic talented youngsters. So I was glad to see the Thibs era come to a close even if he has had some success as a coach elsewhere and renting Jimmy to make the playoffs here is not all that impressive.

KG, thank you for providing some much needed reality about Tom Thibodeau. I've only been around these parts for a year, but there seems to be a narrative on this board that Thibs won here. He didn't, and to say otherwise is revisionist history. Jimmy Butler won here just as he has won every season of his career...he has never been part of a losing team. But Thibs did not. Yes, the Wolves had a 47-35 record in the one full season Butler played here, but without Butler Thibs coached the Wolves to a pathetic 50-72 record...that's not winning, boys. He took over what he called "the best young roster in the league" and coached them to a sterling 31-51 record...a whopping 2 more wins than Sam Mitchell the previous year despite the improvement we always expect young players to make. Then after Butler led us to our one winning record, Thibs was on his way to another losing season when Glen realized he wasn't going to win here and that the fans were demanding a change. Let's not forget how unpleasant it was to be at Target Center when Thibs was coaching sans Butler. Frankly it was much more fun watching the Wolves lose with Sam Mitchell and Ryan Saunders than it was watching them lose with Thibs...and any season ticket holder here will say the same thing.

Give Thibs credit for turning the Knicks around...he deserves a lot of credit for what he has accomplished there. But please stop saying that Thibs "won" here, because without Butler, he was a disaster, and I don't remember many unhappy people at Target Center after Glen sent him packing.

Mmmm, FNG sounds more and more like a regular poster from the past when I read a post like this. Are you sure you've only been around for a year? ;-)

Kevin Love was one of my favorite T-Wolves...kind of a KAT-light forerunner as a great rebounder and 3-point shooter, although not a force on defense. My thoughts about Thibs are a lot different though. While I liked the Butler trade when it happened, I think we all have to admit it didn't turn out well in the end. Thibs was successful in Chicago and has done a great job in NY, but I think we all have to agree the Thibs era in Minnesota was not successful.

Ha! We need to know how FNG feels about Kevin Love before the investigation begins, but I had a similar reaction. That's too funny.

FNG wrote:

Camden wrote:I don't think an executive has to have playing history to be successful in that role. There have been plenty of former players or coaches that have tried and failed in front office roles. I can also point to a number of executives who never played basketball at a high level and have been successful. There is no singular blueprint. The skills and traits required to be productive in that position are not basketball-related, though I'll add that any kind of background in basketball is a plus.

Yeah, I don't know that having played the game is essential either. Being able to recognize and evaluate talent was the first thought that came out of my mouth when asked what I would look for in a POBO, and perhaps first hand on-court experience may be helpful. But you can certainly find great players who have failed in front office jobs, and to a lesser extent, non-playing executives who have been successful.

My main point is that we seem to be an outlier in continuing to hire short, non-athletic POBO's. I spent a few minutes this morning reviewing the current list of POBO's in the league, and the first ten I looked at had at least high school court time if not college or NBA. We can say we don't know whether having played helps or not, but we can certainly say that we have been an outlier with Kahn, Rosas and Gupta. And we can all agree we have not been successful with this approach.

Camden wrote:"New interim head of basketball operations Sachin Gupta is well-regarded by team officials and is expected to get a chance to earn the permanent job, sources tell The Athletic."

Honestly, this is to be expected and we've seen that kind of report before with other organizations, but I enjoyed seeing this today. It doesn't always work out that way where the interim label comes off, but I'm rooting for Sachin Gupta. I think he's legit.

FNG wrote:

Camden wrote:"New interim head of basketball operations Sachin Gupta is well-regarded by team officials and is expected to get a chance to earn the permanent job, sources tell The Athletic."

Honestly, this is to be expected and we've seen that kind of report before with other organizations, but I enjoyed seeing this today. It doesn't always work out that way where the interim label comes off, but I'm rooting for Sachin Gupta. I think he's legit.

I'm willing to be patient and see if this guy can be effective, but frankly I just don't know much about him. He's obviously smart...engineering and computer science degree from MIT and MBA from Stanford. I just don't know if those things will translate to success in the NBA. We'll have to see. My guess is this is merely an interim step to keep the executive office filled during this critical time, but that Lore/Arod will eventually put their stamp on their team by choosing their own POBO, and I'm guessing fluency in Java may not be at the top of their criteria list. Being able to complete an effective deal for Simmons would help his chances of getting rid of that interim label.

60WinTim wrote:

FNG wrote:

Camden wrote:"New interim head of basketball operations Sachin Gupta is well-regarded by team officials and is expected to get a chance to earn the permanent job, sources tell The Athletic."

Honestly, this is to be expected and we've seen that kind of report before with other organizations, but I enjoyed seeing this today. It doesn't always work out that way where the interim label comes off, but I'm rooting for Sachin Gupta. I think he's legit.

I'm willing to be patient and see if this guy can be effective, but frankly I just don't know much about him. He's obviously smart...engineering and computer science degree from MIT and MBA from Stanford. I just don't know if those things will translate to success in the NBA. We'll have to see. My guess is this is merely an interim step to keep the executive office filled during this critical time, but that Lore/Arod will eventually put their stamp on their team by choosing their own POBO, and I'm guessing fluency in Java may not be at the top of their criteria list. Being able to complete an effective deal for Simmons would help his chances of getting rid of that interim label.

Well, he did create ESPN's Trade Machine, so that has got to count for something! :)