Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

Many people thought the coach mattered as well. It was all Ryans fault. Finch was going to be the difference maker.

As of now, we are actually worse. It's still a long season though so I doubt this pathetic start holds all year.

Wolves now on pace for 24 wins.

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

I'm curious to know who, specifically, raised their expectations solely based on the acquisition of Patrick Beverley and Taurean Prince. Can you provide the name of even one person who had that take? Or can we conclude that it's a falsified memory you have?

Surely, most people had higher expectations this season based on better health and the development of promising rookies, Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels. The involvement and perceived upgrade at head coach from Ryan Saunders to Chris Finch likely played a part as well. I'm not sure anyone's excitement for the team was a result of adding two role players. They were upgrades over last year's bench fodder, but there were and are more significant reasons for optimism.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

Many people thought the coach mattered as well. It was all Ryans fault. Finch was going to be the difference maker.

As of now, we are actually worse. It's still a long season though so I doubt this pathetic start holds all year.

Wolves now on pace for 24 wins.

Is that why the Lego man is a teacher now instead of Assistant or Head Coach somewhere?

https://unwsp.edu/news/former-minnesota-timberwolves-head-coach-ryan-saunders-to-join-northwestern-st-paul-as-adjunct-faculty/

Let's also remember that some of the optimistic predictions were based on our record last year when both DLO and KAT played. It was actually just above .500 as Kekgeek would point out. And we especially looked better after Finch took over. So no, it wasn't the Prince and Beverley acquisitions that drove the more positive outlook. It was based on actual performance from the season prior.

What's really disturbing to me is that this team is on a worse pace with a much healthier roster than they were last year with an injury-riddled one! Now THAT's scary!

It wasn't my intention to mean that Beverley and Prince were the sole reason fans expected improvement. But people were on here talking themselves into believing they could be factors.
The Wolves won 19 games last year, and those two guys are the only additions. Team's that won 45 -50 games last year upgraded their rosters better. The Wolves aren't gonna leap frog anyone making 0 moves.

Jester1534 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

Many people thought the coach mattered as well. It was all Ryans fault. Finch was going to be the difference maker.

As of now, we are actually worse. It's still a long season though so I doubt this pathetic start holds all year.

Wolves now on pace for 24 wins.

Is that why the Lego man is a teacher now instead of Assistant or Head Coach somewhere?

https://unwsp.edu/news/former-minnesota-timberwolves-head-coach-ryan-saunders-to-join-northwestern-st-paul-as-adjunct-faculty/

It's a players league. Coaching doesn't matter all that much. Give me Giannis before Popavich.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

Many people thought the coach mattered as well. It was all Ryans fault. Finch was going to be the difference maker.

As of now, we are actually worse. It's still a long season though so I doubt this pathetic start holds all year.

Wolves now on pace for 24 wins.

Is that why the Lego man is a teacher now instead of Assistant or Head Coach somewhere?

https://unwsp.edu/news/former-minnesota-timberwolves-head-coach-ryan-saunders-to-join-northwestern-st-paul-as-adjunct-faculty/

It's a players league. Coaching doesn't matter all that much. Give me Giannis before Popavich.

I think my point was that Saunders was so inept he's not even in the league anymore.

Obviously I take Giannis over Pop but you can't look me in the face and tell me with this roster that Pop wouldn't have this team at least in the playoffs.

Edit: Also if a coach can't help win games he can sure help lose them. This is what I Complained about Saunders the most about. His rotational awareness was so bad that it was effecting the team.

I criticize finch this with Doper in the Memphis game saying there was no reason for Naz not to be in the game. I have no doubt in my mind if Naz was in the game we win that game instead of blowing it. I think Finch contributed them losing that game as much as Mcdaniels missing a point blank lay up did.

Jester1534 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Jester1534 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

PorkChop wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Any preseason optimism was from conjecture.

Any pessimism right now is from actual performance.

Which one carries more weight?



[Note: Again, it's not impossible for the Wolves to improve with 87% of the season remaining... but it's more likely that the Wolves are closer to what we're seeing than what many predicted they would be.]

Yep gotta agree. The only offseason moves were for guys like Prince and Beverely and expectations rose based on those two moves. Seems ridiculous now. If we expected this team to be better based on a 10 wins / 14 loss stretch to end the season last year ( disregarding the other 50 games) then I think it's fair to see this team for what it is now going 3-7.

Many people thought the coach mattered as well. It was all Ryans fault. Finch was going to be the difference maker.

As of now, we are actually worse. It's still a long season though so I doubt this pathetic start holds all year.

Wolves now on pace for 24 wins.

Is that why the Lego man is a teacher now instead of Assistant or Head Coach somewhere?

https://unwsp.edu/news/former-minnesota-timberwolves-head-coach-ryan-saunders-to-join-northwestern-st-paul-as-adjunct-faculty/

It's a players league. Coaching doesn't matter all that much. Give me Giannis before Popavich.

I think my point was that Saunders was so inept he's not even in the league anymore.

Obviously I take Giannis over Pop but you can't look me in the face and tell me with this roster that Pop wouldn't have this team at least in the playoffs.

Edit: Also if a coach can't help win games he can sure help lose them. This is what I Complained about Saunders the most about. His rotational awareness was so bad that it was effecting the team.

I criticize finch this with Doper in the Memphis game saying there was no reason for Naz not to be in the game. I have no doubt in my mind if Naz was in the game we win that game instead of blowing it. I think Finch contributed them losing that game as much as Mcdaniels missing a point blank lay up did.

Naz can't guard Morant. Neither can DLO, Bease and probably not Ant. Run a 3-2 zone maybe, leave him open for a 3P? Maybe. I mean his most dangerous at the rim getting easy buckets.

So that's why JO was in the game. Despite being terrible on offense he is pretty good at slowing down guys like Ja.

It's purely speculation at best that the team would have won a ton more games with Finch all last year then Ryan. The team was majorly injured. Ant started the year raw and got better throughout the year.

I would say Pop could be one coach who could maybe get a guy like KAT to improve his weaknesses. We've seen a half dozen come in here with no change. Pop could possible get through to guys where 99% of coaches can't.

Eventually you simply have to blame the players, not the coach for not winning.

I'm simply saying there is little difference between Ryan and Finch and 90% of other NBA coaches. It's nearly all on the players to win or lose.

As far as Ryan not in the NBA. Not that many jobs to go around. It's not surprising.

PorkChop wrote:It wasn't my intention to mean that Beverley and Prince were the sole reason fans expected improvement. But people were on here talking themselves into believing they could be factors.
The Wolves won 19 games last year, and those two guys are the only additions. Team's that won 45 -50 games last year upgraded their rosters better. The Wolves aren't gonna leap frog anyone making 0 moves.

We actually won 23 games last year and did so with three of our better players missing a ton of games. A lot of people's projections for this season assumed KAT, DLO, and Beasley wouldn't miss 20+ games each. That's not an illogical assumption to think we'd get better by simply being healthier.