Minnesota Timberwolves: Rumor Mill

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lip, how much longer can Daryl Morey realistically hold out in hopes that some organization ups their offer when they don't necessarily have to if they feel like their offer is the best on the table? There's about a month and a half until the regular season starts and even less time before training camp begins. Ben Simmons will not show up for any of that. His trade value will stagnate at best and decrease at worst.

For instance, if Sacramento has an offer on the table of Harrison Barnes, Tyrese Haliburton, and a first-round pick, and they feel like no other team has offered more than them, they are not going to include De'Aaron Fox for funzies. That's just not how the trade market works, especially when the Kings don't want to let go of Fox in the first place. If Sacramento gets Simmons it will be for some combination of Barnes, Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Davion Mitchell, and draft picks -- not Fox.

Similarly, if Minnesota lands Simmons I feel very confident that it will be for some combination of Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, and draft picks -- not Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, or D'Angelo Russell.

[Lipoli390]

Getting Simmons would be huge for so many reasons. Im trying to not get excited Cam. It would be sad to see Jaden go, but if Rosas could hold up a foursome of KAT, Ant, DLo and Simmons that would be an insanely talented core.

You have to give something to get something. If no other teams in the league wanted Simmons, we might pull off a steal like that. But there WILL be competition for him and we won't get him for 50 cents on the dollar.

I agree, Cool. I think it's been a waiting game. Simmons has serious flaws in his game - which of course is why the Sixers are trying to trade him. There are only a handful of teams interested in acquiring Simmons. The front office executives for those teams know Ben's flaws and are testing Morey's resolve. At the end of the day, teams like the Wolves and several others will eventually start bidding on Simmons as the clock begins to run out on the start of the season. Has Morey overplayed his hand? Maybe. But even with all his flaws, Simmons is a still young all-star and elite defender. His value may not be enough to get Lillard or Beal, but there's a limit to how much of a discount any team can count on in the price to acquire him.

Houston accepted a brunch of picks as the centerpiece of their return for James Harden because they were going into full rebuild mode. The Sixers are appropriately focused on winning right now while Embiid is in his prime and healthy. Morey is not going to trade Simmons unless he receives players who will make a substantial positive impact for the team immediately. I don't see him trading Simmons for a couple rotation role players and a bunch of picks based on the hope that Lillard or Beal will be available in exchange for Simmons next February or next summer.

If you were Morey, who would you take in return for Simmons - (1) VanVleet and Anunoby from Toronto (2) Hield and Haliburton from Sacramento; or (3) Beasley, Prince and Layman from the Wolves? What if the Wolves package were Beasley, Prince and McDaniels? I love McDaniels and like Beasley, but if I were Morey with his obvious focus on winning a championship next season, I'd take VanVleet and Anunoby or Haliburton and Hield over the Beasley, Prince and McDaniels package.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Getting Simmons would be huge for so many reasons. Im trying to not get excited Cam. It would be sad to see Jaden go, but if Rosas could hold up a foursome of KAT, Ant, DLo and Simmons that would be an insanely talented core.

Yeah, Ben Simmons is about as perfect of an acquisition as Minnesota could hope for right now and it's beginning to feel like they have a real chance at getting him. That foursome you're talking about would be exceptional and unrecognizable for Timberwolves basketball -- and likely leads them to being an actual title contender in my view. The front office has seemingly avoided making other moves to try and wait the Simmons situation out. It'd be nice for once if they could actually nab the big fish.

[Lipoli390]

The 76ers were widely believed to be holding out for a chance to acquire Damian Lillard from the Portland Trail Blazers, but Lillard recently said he isn't leaving Portland, "not right now at least." As for Sacramento, sources have suggested the 76ers would only be willing to consider an offer that includes De'Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton. The Kings are unlikely to part with either player, but they can offer Buddy Hield, a prolific 3-point shooter who would space the floor for Joel Embiid; Marvin Bagley III, a former No. 2 pick who has yet to reach his potential; and other assets, including multiple first-round draft picks. - via Sacramento Bee

This report supports Cam's view that the Kings won't agree to part with Fox in exchange for Simmons. I would say that things can change, but so far the chatter supports Cam's view. I find it interesting that this report says the Sixers won't consider an offer from the Kings that doesn't include Fox OR Haliburton. If that report is true, then I'd say it's highly likely that Simmons will end up in Sacramento because there is no doubt in my mind that the Kings will give up Haliburton as well as Hield for Simmons. The Kings were already set to deal Hield to the Lakers and, while Haliburton is a terrific prospect who can already contribute significantly, there is no way the Kings will let Simmons slip through their fingers to keep Haliburton and Hield.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Lip, I don't think the Sixers are winning a championship next season regardless of what they get back for Ben Simmons. I think Daryl Morey knows this even if he never says it out loud. They are not going to get better immediately after trading Simmons unless they get back someone that is better than Simmons, and that player isn't currently available. So, they can either cash Simmons in for the players you've mentioned and they'll keep the Sixers right where they are -- or actually worse than they were last year -- OR Morey will stockpile assets and remain in pursuit of Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal or some other future disgruntled star that lifts the ceiling of the Sixers back into championship contention. The latter seems like something Morey would do.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, I don't think the Sixers are winning a championship next season regardless of what they get back for Ben Simmons. I think Daryl Morey knows this even if he never says it out loud. They are not going to get better immediately after trading Simmons unless they get back someone that is better than Simmons, and that player isn't currently available. So, they can either cash Simmons in for the players you've mentioned and they'll keep the Sixers right where they are -- or actually worse than they were last year -- OR Morey will stockpile assets and remain in pursuit of Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal or some other future disgruntled star that lifts the ceiling of the Sixers back into championship contention. The latter seems like something Morey would do.

That's a fair perspective, Cam. My only caveat is that I don't think it's a matter of getting someone better than Simmons in return. Instead it's a matter of getting a player or players who are individually or collectively a better fit for the Sixers. That still doesn't diminish your main point about Morey choosing to stockpile assets as a longer-term strategy to get the star player he wants next off season. I could see Morey thinking that way.

I do think Morey would abandon your stockpile strategy if he could land Fox by the start of next season and I think he'd give up another asset to facilitate a Simmons-Fox deal. The following report is why I think the Kings will eventually make Fox available, or at least make a compelling offer of players and picks without Fox that would still exceed what the Wolves might be able and willing to offer:

Kings general manager Monte McNair is determined to make a big move as the franchise seeks to end its 15-year playoff drought, sources said. The Kings have also shown interest in Toronto Raptors All-Star Pascal Siakam, but Siakam isn't seeking a trade and the Raptors are unlikely to move him, a source with knowledge of the situation in Toronto told The Bee. - via Sacramento Bee

[Monster]

Lip, I don't think the Sixers are winning a championship next season regardless of what they get back for Ben Simmons. I think Daryl Morey knows this even if he never says it out loud. They are not going to get better immediately after trading Simmons unless they get back someone that is better than Simmons, and that player isn't currently available. So, they can either cash Simmons in for the players you've mentioned and they'll keep the Sixers right where they are -- or actually worse than they were last year -- OR Morey will stockpile assets and remain in pursuit of Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal or some other future disgruntled star that lifts the ceiling of the Sixers back into championship contention. The latter seems like something Morey would do.

Cam this is an interesting perspective. Morey in Houston was always looking for big-time players and the guys he really wanted. You might be right he pulls the trigger on the best assets he can get and got from there. The Sixers might not be a contender if he does that but they are a pretty talented team right now in terms of the regular season. They will certainly miss Simmons defense and playmaking but I think they can possibly win plenty of games while Morey tried to find a deal. If anyone would decide to take a step back to make a big deal later it's Morey.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The 76ers were widely believed to be holding out for a chance to acquire Damian Lillard from the Portland Trail Blazers, but Lillard recently said he isn't leaving Portland, "not right now at least." As for Sacramento, sources have suggested the 76ers would only be willing to consider an offer that includes De'Aaron Fox or Tyrese Haliburton. The Kings are unlikely to part with either player, but they can offer Buddy Hield, a prolific 3-point shooter who would space the floor for Joel Embiid; Marvin Bagley III, a former No. 2 pick who has yet to reach his potential; and other assets, including multiple first-round draft picks. - via Sacramento Bee

This report supports Cam's view that the Kings won't agree to part with Fox in exchange for Simmons. I would say that things can change, but so far the chatter supports Cam's view. I find it interesting that this report says the Sixers won't consider an offer from the Kings that doesn't include Fox OR Haliburton. If that report is true, then I'd say it's highly likely that Simmons will end up in Sacramento because there is no doubt in my mind that the Kings will give up Haliburton as well as Hield for Simmons. The Kings were already set to deal Hield to the Lakers and, while Haliburton is a terrific prospect who can already contribute significantly, there is no way the Kings will let Simmons slip through their fingers to keep Haliburton and Hield.

Interesting that the report notes that the Kings are unlikely to part with Tyrese Haliburton, but I think we both expect them to include him in offers. The rumors I came across last week illustrated that he had already been included in various packages. I do believe that De'Aaron Fox isn't going anywhere, though. I think the Sacramento front office drafted Davion Mitchell this past draft in the event that they dealt Haliburton. This does reaffirm to me that Ben Simmons' trade value is nothing close to what his on-court value is. Some team is going to steal a 25-year old All-NBA player away from the Sixers. What a shame.

[Lipoli390]

Lip, how much longer can Daryl Morey realistically hold out in hopes that some organization ups their offer when they don't necessarily have to if they feel like their offer is the best on the table? There's about a month and a half until the regular season starts and even less time before training camp begins. Ben Simmons will not show up for any of that. His trade value will stagnate at best and decrease at worst.

For instance, if Sacramento has an offer on the table of Harrison Barnes, Tyrese Haliburton, and a first-round pick, and they feel like no other team has offered more than them, they are not going to include De'Aaron Fox for funzies. That's just not how the trade market works, especially when the Kings don't want to let go of Fox in the first place. If Sacramento gets Simmons it will be for some combination of Barnes, Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Davion Mitchell, and draft picks -- not Fox.

Similarly, if Minnesota lands Simmons I feel very confident that it will be for some combination of Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, Patrick Beverley, Taurean Prince, and draft picks -- not Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, or D'Angelo Russell.

Cam - Why would Sacramento up their prior rumored offer of Haliburton and Barnes? The answer lies in the extent to which any other teams up their prior offers. The Wolves rumored offer for Simmons was Ricky, Culver and some future picks. In that case, it makes sense that Sacramento would not offer more than Haliburton, Barnes and a future pick or two. But if the Wolves were to offer Beasley and McDaniels as part of an outgoing package with future picks, that would substantially up the ante. In that case, I would expect Sacramento to up its offer and perhaps Toronto or another team would do the same. Would Sacramento offer Fox in that instance? Maybe, maybe not. More likely, they'd include Hield in their package with Haliburton. Let the bidding begin. How high the bidding goes depends on the level of interest in getting Simmons. I think the Wolves and Kings are both highly motivated to acquire Simmons. Whether that motivation would eventually get the Wolves to offer DLO is an open question. If the Wolves were to offer DLO, I think the Kings would offer Fox and they'd win that bidding war against the Wolves. Otherwise, I see the Sixers eventually agreeing to a deal that gets them Haliburton, Hield along with two future lightly-protected first-round picks and a pick swap.

[Duke13]

I'm just gonna say this for the record, keep McDaniels, include Dlo.