Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I LOVE this team the way they played their asses off in these games. Guess what...guys don't always make shots. Pistons went 6-24. That's not good either.

Okogie 4 blocks and 2 steals. Ridiculous the guy looks more like Smart at this point than Dunn and that's quite the compliment. Maybe he gets turned around at times but his ability to recover laterally and strong is very impressive.

KBD had plenty of nice moments.

Amile was one of the catalysts of the comeback. The guy just balls out with everything you can ask out of him.

Bruce Brown looked really good. He was a guy i liked for where he was supposed to get picked. Pistons had a pretty nice draft. I'll take Okogie over Thomas though and I still like him.

Monster, did you attend "60 Win Tim's" summer camp for apologists and outrageously optimistic fans?

We have been posting on this forum for like 20 years and you are just figuring this out? Lol

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I LOVE this team the way they played their asses off in these games. Guess what...guys don't always make shots. Pistons went 6-24. That's not good either.

Okogie 4 blocks and 2 steals. Ridiculous the guy looks more like Smart at this point than Dunn and that's quite the compliment. Maybe he gets turned around at times but his ability to recover laterally and strong is very impressive.

KBD had plenty of nice moments.

Amile was one of the catalysts of the comeback. The guy just balls out with everything you can ask out of him.

Bruce Brown looked really good. He was a guy i liked for where he was supposed to get picked. Pistons had a pretty nice draft. I'll take Okogie over Thomas though and I still like him.

Monster, did you attend "60 Win Tim's" summer camp for apologists and outrageously optimistic fans?

We have been posting on this forum for like 20 years and you are just figuring this out? Lol

I was listening to the ringer nba show and they were talking about the summer league. They mostly talked about top prospects but then chris Vernon brought up Okoogie and he said he heard from a GM. If the wolves can teach Okoogie to jump off 1 foot (similar to what Mitchell had to learn) he is going to be a stud

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I LOVE this team the way they played their asses off in these games. Guess what...guys don't always make shots. Pistons went 6-24. That's not good either.

Okogie 4 blocks and 2 steals. Ridiculous the guy looks more like Smart at this point than Dunn and that's quite the compliment. Maybe he gets turned around at times but his ability to recover laterally and strong is very impressive.

KBD had plenty of nice moments.

Amile was one of the catalysts of the comeback. The guy just balls out with everything you can ask out of him.

Bruce Brown looked really good. He was a guy i liked for where he was supposed to get picked. Pistons had a pretty nice draft. I'll take Okogie over Thomas though and I still like him.

Monster, did you attend "60 Win Tim's" summer camp for apologists and outrageously optimistic fans?

We have been posting on this forum for like 20 years and you are just figuring this out? Lol

I was listening to the ringer nba show and they were talking about the summer league. They mostly talked about top prospects but then chris Vernon brought up Okoogie and he said he heard from a GM. If the wolves can teach Okoogie to jump off 1 foot (similar to what Mitchell had to learn) he is going to be a stud

Mitchell and Okogie shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. Okogie needs a hell of a lot more than a new way of jumping in order to even come close to what Mitchell can do offensively. He doesn't have the handles, change of speed/direction, or craftiness around the hoop. Nor does it appear he can shoot it as well.

Right now the focus for Okogie should be catch-and-shoot 3's and ensuring his mechanics are consistent. And he should be taking tons of them. May be after a few more summers he will show off some better handles, but that isn't something that's easy to develop at his age.

Mitchell is one of the most surprising cases of player improvement in recent memory. He just wasn't as good in college as he became last year. Summer league he clearly was already improving. Watching those games last summer it was clear he was going to be a real defensive pest and had some three point range and the ability to put up a lot of points if needed. Given Hayward's departure, some people were expecting a guy who could put up 16-18 points, which would have been really impressive as a rookie. I was kind of thinking he'd be a smaller Rodney Hood with defense or kind of a Patrick Beverley with a legit 3 point shot. But then he just kept improving. NOBODY expected him to become what he became. I mean, LOOK at his highlights from last year. That's not at all the same player he was in college. He's a star already, IMO. He looks like a young, quicker Dwyane Wade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1-vD1GIxk

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Mitchell is one of the most surprising cases of player improvement in recent memory. He just wasn't as good in college as he became last year. Summer league he clearly was already improving. Watching those games last summer it was clear he was going to be a real defensive pest and had some three point range and the ability to put up a lot of points if needed. Given Hayward's departure, some people were expecting a guy who could put up 16-18 points, which would have been really impressive as a rookie. I was kind of thinking he'd be a smaller Rodney Hood with defense or kind of a Patrick Beverley with a legit 3 point shot. But then he just kept improving. NOBODY expected him to become what he became. I mean, LOOK at his highlights from last year. That's not at all the same player he was in college. He's a star already, IMO. He looks like a young, quicker Dwyane Wade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1-vD1GIxk

Yeah, he definitely has the "it" factor now and it is a fairly rare case of someone improving so much from college. Could it be that he always had it in him, but he simply didn't have the same space and freedom to operate? It's funny because the Draftexpress scouting report on Mitchell cautioned whoever drafted him not to try to make him a lead guard, but instead start his career as a 3 & D type player. Well, they got that one wrong!

It reminds me a bit of KAT in that I had no idea KAT was going to be so good offensively as a rookie (18 PPG on 54% shooting). Kentucky never utilized KAT's full arsenal while he was there.

Q12543 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Mitchell is one of the most surprising cases of player improvement in recent memory. He just wasn't as good in college as he became last year. Summer league he clearly was already improving. Watching those games last summer it was clear he was going to be a real defensive pest and had some three point range and the ability to put up a lot of points if needed. Given Hayward's departure, some people were expecting a guy who could put up 16-18 points, which would have been really impressive as a rookie. I was kind of thinking he'd be a smaller Rodney Hood with defense or kind of a Patrick Beverley with a legit 3 point shot. But then he just kept improving. NOBODY expected him to become what he became. I mean, LOOK at his highlights from last year. That's not at all the same player he was in college. He's a star already, IMO. He looks like a young, quicker Dwyane Wade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1-vD1GIxk

Yeah, he definitely has the "it" factor now and it is a fairly rare case of someone improving so much from college. Could it be that he always had it in him, but he simply didn't have the same space and freedom to operate? It's funny because the Draftexpress scouting report on Mitchell cautioned whoever drafted him not to try to make him a lead guard, but instead start his career as a 3 & D type player. Well, they got that one wrong!

It reminds me a bit of KAT in that I had no idea KAT was going to be so good offensively as a rookie (18 PPG on 54% shooting). Kentucky never utilized KAT's full arsenal while he was there.

Lip started all this by saying we needed the next Donovan Mitchell in the draft etc etc. BLAME HIM!!!! ;)

Ok first of all Q is right that what Mitchell is now comparing him to Okogie is probably ridiculous. The comparisons are about what they were in college. That's interesting to look at because statistically and physically Okogie has some advantages there. Below is a fairly decent article that makes the case.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/07/12/minnesota-timberwolves-josh-okogie-donovan-mitchell/

But the reality is that its unfair to compare the Wolves rookie (probably no matter who it was) with Mitchell. Drew broke down the development aspect which was amazing. The draft express guys said they saw this guy workout in their gym and they were amazed and started moving him up the draft board. Utah worked him out and Dennis Lindsey told everyone they would be fired if it got out what they saw there. Q a workout that probably mattered!!!!! =) at #20 getting the next Danny Green type is a pretty big win. Expecting to get Donovan Mitchell or Giannis is asking a lot.

Again the reality is whether guys improve or as Q said what they may have had all along? We don't know. I'm with Q that Okogie needs more than just jumping off just 1 foot although I can see how that would help him as a finisher. Dunn was the same way although he was a better ball handler and better finisher but was also older etc. EVERYONE is looking for the next Donovan Mitchell. Some guys are probably doing so even more because they missed him and it was their job to find a guy. To me Okogie is young and he needs alot fo work, but I also think he has enough its not a lost cause especially at his age. I'm fine if he just plays his butt off and hits open shots and makes basket cuts etc. I'm looking forward to his development and what he may bring in the meantime. This is the type of guy we have wanted for quite a while and sorta lament at times trading away in Dunn. we got another one and one that fits teh team needs better IMO.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Mitchell is one of the most surprising cases of player improvement in recent memory. He just wasn't as good in college as he became last year. Summer league he clearly was already improving. Watching those games last summer it was clear he was going to be a real defensive pest and had some three point range and the ability to put up a lot of points if needed. Given Hayward's departure, some people were expecting a guy who could put up 16-18 points, which would have been really impressive as a rookie. I was kind of thinking he'd be a smaller Rodney Hood with defense or kind of a Patrick Beverley with a legit 3 point shot. But then he just kept improving. NOBODY expected him to become what he became. I mean, LOOK at his highlights from last year. That's not at all the same player he was in college. He's a star already, IMO. He looks like a young, quicker Dwyane Wade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo1-vD1GIxk

Yeah, he definitely has the "it" factor now and it is a fairly rare case of someone improving so much from college. Could it be that he always had it in him, but he simply didn't have the same space and freedom to operate? It's funny because the Draftexpress scouting report on Mitchell cautioned whoever drafted him not to try to make him a lead guard, but instead start his career as a 3 & D type player. Well, they got that one wrong!

It reminds me a bit of KAT in that I had no idea KAT was going to be so good offensively as a rookie (18 PPG on 54% shooting). Kentucky never utilized KAT's full arsenal while he was there.

Lip started all this by saying we needed the next Donovan Mitchell in the draft etc etc. BLAME HIM!!!! ;)

Ok first of all Q is right that what Mitchell is now comparing him to Okogie is probably ridiculous. The comparisons are about what they were in college. That's interesting to look at because statistically and physically Okogie has some advantages there. Below is a fairly decent article that makes the case.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/07/12/minnesota-timberwolves-josh-okogie-donovan-mitchell/

But the reality is that its unfair to compare the Wolves rookie (probably no matter who it was) with Mitchell. Drew broke down the development aspect which was amazing. The draft express guys said they saw this guy workout in their gym and they were amazed and started moving him up the draft board. Utah worked him out and Dennis Lindsey told everyone they would be fired if it got out what they saw there. Q a workout that probably mattered!!!!! =) at #20 getting the next Danny Green type is a pretty big win. Expecting to get Donovan Mitchell or Giannis is asking a lot.

Again the reality is whether guys improve or as Q said what they may have had all along? We don't know. I'm with Q that Okogie needs more than just jumping off just 1 foot although I can see how that would help him as a finisher. Dunn was the same way although he was a better ball handler and better finisher but was also older etc. EVERYONE is looking for the next Donovan Mitchell. Some guys are probably doing so even more because they missed him and it was their job to find a guy. To me Okogie is young and he needs alot fo work, but I also think he has enough its not a lost cause especially at his age. I'm fine if he just plays his butt off and hits open shots and makes basket cuts etc. I'm looking forward to his development and what he may bring in the meantime. This is the type of guy we have wanted for quite a while and sorta lament at times trading away in Dunn. we got another one and one that fits teh team needs better IMO.

Monster - I'm happy we drafted Okogie. As everyone on this board knows, he was my first choice among those available at #20. What distinguishes Mitchell from Okogie is ballhandling. Mitchell was a much better ballhandler than Okogie coming out of college. Okogie's poor handle really hit me watching him live in Vegas. Thankfully, it's not as bad as Wiggins' handle and it's better than KBD's. But it will be a serious career limiter for Okogie unless it improves substantially. Unfortunately, ballhandling is such a basic motor skill that it rarely improves a lot once a player gets to the NBA, even if the player is 19 going on 20 like Okogie.

Okogie looks like he can develop into a great defender and excellent rebounder at his position with a nice spot-up 3-point shot. In other words a terrific 3 & D guy. I hope I'm wrong about his ceiling. I hope he surprises me by substantially improving his handle and putting some shake in his dribble drive. But I'm not holding my breath. In other words, I don't think we drafted the next Donovan Mitchell. ?

Wolves win their final game against Denver. I suppose that's good. And they did it with Okogie who sat out with a sprained thumb.

Overall, I really liked what our two rookies did. They have a chance to contribute, or if nothing else, offer better depth than what we had last year. Thibs will have options if someone is struggling, or if someone is injured.

I know Lip has railed on Terrell, but I thought he showed some good stuff out there, including strength and athleticism that can play in the NBA. I think he is a good pickup for a 2-way contract. And it offers some depth in the backcourt that could allow the Wolves to fill out their roster with more interesting players than Aaron Brooks...

60WinTim wrote:Wolves win their final game against Denver. I suppose that's good. And they did it with Okogie who sat out with a sprained thumb.

Overall, I really liked what our two rookies did. They have a chance to contribute, or if nothing else, offer better depth than what we had last year. Thibs will have options if someone is struggling, or if someone is injured.

I know Lip has railed on Terrell, but I thought he showed some good stuff out there, including strength and athleticism that can play in the NBA. I think he is a good pickup for a 2-way contract. And it offers some depth in the backcourt that could allow the Wolves to fill out their roster with more interesting players than Aaron Brooks...

I don't know Tim. I'm more skeptical than you that our rookies can contribute meaningfully this year. Keep in mind that KBD will be a 3rd string PF, behind Taj and Tolliver. He's not going to see the floor unless one of those guys gets hurt. And even then Dieng may get the call even though he's really no longer an NBA 4. Heck, if we sign Jefferson to a deal, he may be ahead of KBD on the depth chart.

Okogie plays a position where we have the least depth, so Thibs may be forced to play him. But man, he is really raw offensively and may be a complete non-threat on that end of the floor. He hustles and defends hard, making some "wow" plays on that end, but I'm not sure it'll be enough to make up for his other shortcomings.

Terrell was a disaster in my opinion. He is less bad as a SG vs. PG, but he makes some really poor decisions with his shot and passing. He doesn't seem like much of a team player either.

Sorry, getting an early start on my pessimism!

Q12543 wrote:

60WinTim wrote:Wolves win their final game against Denver. I suppose that's good. And they did it with Okogie who sat out with a sprained thumb.

Overall, I really liked what our two rookies did. They have a chance to contribute, or if nothing else, offer better depth than what we had last year. Thibs will have options if someone is struggling, or if someone is injured.

I know Lip has railed on Terrell, but I thought he showed some good stuff out there, including strength and athleticism that can play in the NBA. I think he is a good pickup for a 2-way contract. And it offers some depth in the backcourt that could allow the Wolves to fill out their roster with more interesting players than Aaron Brooks...

I don't know Tim. I'm more skeptical than you that our rookies can contribute meaningfully this year. Keep in mind that KBD will be a 3rd string PF, behind Taj and Tolliver. He's not going to see the floor unless one of those guys gets hurt. And even then Dieng may get the call even though he's really no longer an NBA 4. Heck, if we sign Jefferson to a deal, he may be ahead of KBD on the depth chart.

Okogie plays a position where we have the least depth, so Thibs may be forced to play him. But man, he is really raw offensively and may be a complete non-threat on that end of the floor. He hustles and defends hard, making some "wow" plays on that end, but I'm not sure it'll be enough to make up for his other shortcomings.

Terrell was a disaster in my opinion. He is less bad as a SG vs. PG, but he makes some really poor decisions with his shot and passing. He doesn't seem like much of a team player either.

Sorry, getting an early start on my pessimism!

Sorry to say that I agree with you. Terrell looked better against Toronto and Brooklyn after looking putrid against Denver in the opener. But though he looked better, I still can't understand why Thibodeau so quickly offered him one of our two-way contracts. I can't imagine a line of NBA teams forming to offer him anything.