Minnesota Sports Forum

We don't know whether the Wolves ever pursued Joe Harris, Ilyasova, Belinelli, Will Barton or Jerami Grant in free agency, but it doesn't much matter now since all five have been signed by other teams. Apparently, the Wolves pursued Gerald Green, but he decided to stay with the Rockets.

The more recent reports have the Wolves seeking to keep Belly while also pursuing Anthony Tolliver, Amir Johnson, Jabari Bird, Dante Cunningham and Jeff Ennis. The guy I'd most like to sign out of that group by far would be Tolliver because of his 3-point shooting. Jeff Ennis would be my next choice as a good two-way SF off the bench. Amir Johnson would be my next choice for his toughness and his ability to provide at least some rim-protection. Cunningham and Bird would be my last two choices in that order. Actually, I have no interest in signing Bird and I don't see the point of signing Dante unless the Wolves are going to trade away Gorgui. I'd rather re-sign Amile Jefferson and/or Anthony Brown over Bird or Cunningham.

Here's my prediction. I think we'll re-sign Belly. He apparently likes Minnesota and he's familiar with this team and its system. If the Wolves can offer close to $6 million per year and are willing to offer at least 3 or 4 years, then I think he'll stay. After that, with the vet minimum, I predict we won't sign Tolliver, Johnson or Ennis. At the end of the day, they won't want to play for Thibodeau and will take the vet minimum to play elsewhere. So I see us possibly signing Dante and someone else, maybe Bird. Cunningham still has very fond feeling towards Glen Taylor for supporting him when he was accused of sexual assault years ago. That affinity for Taylor plus the chance to play for a playoff team might be enough to get him here. But he'll still have to ask himself how much playing time, if any, he'll get here behind Towns, Gibson, Gorgui and Belly. It will be telling if the Wolves can't land any of these guys they're pursuing other than Bird.

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

Welcome to the party! Not many of us yet, but Brooklyn_Wolf and Bleedspeed are two that come to mind. Anyone else?

I do try to be fair to Thibs, as evidenced by my immediate support on draft night of his two draft picks this year. It's just that I find so much more to criticize about him. But I suspect you are like me...if the Wolves turn things around and it looks like he is having a positive impact on this team, I will be happy to support him give him any credit he deserves. I'm not holding my breath though...his one-size fits-all obstinance and his refusal to embrace change or accept responsibility tells me that nothing is going to change.

I just can support a platform that also supports Mike Pelfrey I'm sorry LST

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

Welcome to the party! Not many of us yet, but Brooklyn_Wolf and Bleedspeed are two that come to mind. Anyone else?

I do try to be fair to Thibs, as evidenced by my immediate support on draft night of his two draft picks this year. It's just that I find so much more to criticize about him. But I suspect you are like me...if the Wolves turn things around and it looks like he is having a positive impact on this team, I will be happy to support him give him any credit he deserves. I'm not holding my breath though...his one-size fits-all obstinance and his refusal to embrace change or accept responsibility tells me that nothing is going to change.

Yes, I'll be first (well, maybe 4th or 5th) in line to praise Thibodeau if this team finishes the season in the top 4 and wins its opening playoff round. Like you, I liked his draft picks and I've often praised him in his PBO role for not falling prey to really dumb deals like past Wolves front offices have and not panicking, although I think he was too eager last summer to spend this team well above the cap line.

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

This offseason playoff teams.

Warriors: resigned there own talent KD. Added nobody else.

Rockets: lost their 4th best player, resigned a bench guy in gerald green, resigned Paul.

Blazers: lost a role player in ed Davis, signed stauskas

Okc: resigned their own talent in grant and George. Added nobody else. Now have the biggest tax in history where our owner will not even touch.

Jazz: have done nothing. One starter and one key role player still free agents.

Pelicans: have done nothing. Boogie still a free agent.

Spurs: resigned Gay, signed bellinini. Their best player and top 3 player in the world wants out.

Wolves: have resigned D. Rose to the min.

Cavs: Done nothing. Could lose LBJ

Raptors: Resigned FVF. nothing else.

Celtics: resigned baynes. Nothing else

76ers: lost 2 huge role players in belinelli and ersan ilyasova, after playing with them in the playoffs. Man brown must suck playing for.

Pacers: sign mccdermett to a pretty big deal.

Bucks: signed illysova.

Heat: have done nothing

Wizards: have done nothing.



So how is thibs so much worse than the rest of the playoff teams. No playoff team outside of the spurs/ bucks have added a guy not already on the team who will be a quality role player.

Our owner won't let us go in the lux tax. What I understand. But because of that thibs hands are tied to bargain basement shopping. Thibs made a big mistake with gorgui contract. If he would have waited he would have signed closer to 7 mil a year (what jaymichiel green signed for) and that would have been huge.

Year 1 thibs kepted the cap clear. Besides Aldrich what in the end was a failure.

Year 2 thibs added 2 above average free agents in Teague and Taj arguably the 2 best free agent signings in wolves history. And Crawford on the cheap what ended up badly. Wolves where added a player in the buyout market and probably made the 3rd biggest impact of the buyout guys. Because Bazz, iso Joe, monroe made 0 impact.

I'm just confused on what you want thibs to do when we are financially hamstrung by our owner (what I understand). One big mistake on gorgui could end up being the killer.

*Wiggins could end up being a big mistake but I don't blame thibs on this. He gambled on the Wiggins improvement and he might lose his job because of it.

lipoli390 wrote:We don't know whether the Wolves ever pursued Joe Harris, Ilyasova, Belinelli, Will Barton or Jerami Grant in free agency, but it doesn't much matter now since all five have been signed by other teams. Apparently, the Wolves pursued Gerald Green, but he decided to stay with the Rockets.

The more recent reports have the Wolves seeking to keep Belly while also pursuing Anthony Tolliver, Amir Johnson, Jabari Bird, Dante Cunningham and Jeff Ennis. The guy I'd most like to sign out of that group by far would be Tolliver because of his 3-point shooting. Jeff Ennis would be my next choice as a good two-way SF off the bench. Amir Johnson would be my next choice for his toughness and his ability to provide at least some rim-protection. Cunningham and Bird would be my last two choices in that order. Actually, I have no interest in signing Bird and I don't see the point of signing Dante unless the Wolves are going to trade away Gorgui. I'd rather re-sign Amile Jefferson and/or Anthony Brown over Bird or Cunningham.

Here's my prediction. I think we'll re-sign Belly. He apparently likes Minnesota and he's familiar with this team and its system. If the Wolves can offer close to $6 million per year and are willing to offer at least 3 or 4 years, then I think he'll stay. After that, with the vet minimum, I predict we won't sign Tolliver, Johnson or Ennis. At the end of the day, they won't want to play for Thibodeau and will take the vet minimum to play elsewhere. So I see us possibly signing Dante and someone else, maybe Bird. Cunningham still has very fond feeling towards Glen Taylor for supporting him when he was accused of sexual assault years ago. That affinity for Taylor plus the chance to play for a playoff team might be enough to get him here. But he'll still have to ask himself how much playing time, if any, he'll get here behind Towns, Gibson, Gorgui and Belly. It will be telling if the Wolves can't land any of these guys they're pursuing other than Bird.

Just curious why not bird. To be honest don't know much about him. But he is a young guard that the celtics offer QO on. He shoots threes in college and in the G League (not at a great clip but was a volume shooter)

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

This offseason playoff teams.

Warriors: resigned there own talent KD. Added nobody else.

Rockets: lost their 4th best player, resigned a bench guy in gerald green, resigned Paul.

Blazers: lost a role player in ed Davis, signed stauskas

Okc: resigned their own talent in grant and George. Added nobody else. Now have the biggest tax in history where our owner will not even touch.

Jazz: have done nothing. One starter and one key role player still free agents.

Pelicans: have done nothing. Boogie still a free agent.

Spurs: resigned Gay, signed bellinini. Their best player and top 3 player in the world wants out.

Wolves: have resigned D. Rose to the min.

Cavs: Done nothing. Could lose LBJ

Raptors: Resigned FVF. nothing else.

Celtics: resigned baynes. Nothing else

76ers: lost 2 huge role players in belinelli and ersan ilyasova, after playing with them in the playoffs. Man brown must suck playing for.

Pacers: sign mccdermett to a pretty big deal.

Bucks: signed illysova.

Heat: have done nothing

Wizards: have done nothing.



So how is thibs so much worse than the rest of the playoff teams. No playoff team outside of the spurs/ bucks have added a guy not already on the team who will be a quality role player.

Our owner won't let us go in the lux tax. What I understand. But because of that thibs hands are tied to bargain basement shopping. Thibs made a big mistake with gorgui contract. If he would have waited he would have signed closer to 7 mil a year (what jaymichiel green signed for) and that would have been huge.

Year 1 thibs kepted the cap clear. Besides Aldrich what in the end was a failure.

Year 2 thibs added 2 above average free agents in Teague and Taj arguably the 2 best free agent signings in wolves history. And Crawford on the cheap what ended up badly. Wolves where added a player in the buyout market and probably made the 3rd biggest impact of the buyout guys. Because Bazz, iso Joe, monroe made 0 impact.

I'm just confused on what you want thibs to do when we are financially hamstrung by our owner (what I understand). One big mistake on gorgui could end up being the killer.

*Wiggins could end up being a big mistake but I don't blame thibs on this. He gambled on the Wiggins improvement and he might lose his job because of it.

All those Western Conference teams you mentioned finished ahead of the Wolves in the standings last season. So it would seem that the Wolves are the team that needs the most improvement. Just saying.

We don't know whether Taylor is prohibiting Thibs from spending into the luxury tax. I actually think it would be imprudent to exceed the luxury tax threshold as a team that barely ended up in the playoffs knowing that next year's payroll would likely make the Wolves a tax repeater, which entails a number of operational limits that would further impede the team's ability to enhance its personnel.

And let's not forget that it was Thibodeau's spending spree that, in one summer, took the Wolves from a team with lots of cap room to a team that's completely capped out and closing in on the luxury tax. It was Thibs who chose to give Gorgui his long, lucrative contract. It was Thibodeau who, 9 months after giving Gorgui that contract and 1 month after referring to Gorgui as the team's most improved player in a meeting with me and other season ticket holders, gave $14 million per year to Taj Gibson and relegated Gorgui to the bench as a result. It was Thibs who signed Teague to a 3-year $19 million per year contract when the Knicks appeared to be the only other team interested. And it was Thibs who gave Wiggins the max contract even though Taylor obviously had some misgivings. Then we came within 1 game of ending up in the lottery behind a team that played most of the season without its starting PF and prize FA acquisition Paul Millsap.

Are there worse GMs and head coaches than Thibodeau? Of course. And we've had worse here in Minnesota -- I'm thinking David Kahn and Kurt Rambis for example. But championship contenders are elite teams and elite teams tend to have elite front offices and head coaches. So far, Thibodeau has proven to be far short of elite in either of his two roles. I'd say he's mediocre at best. That's not good enough for me and it shouldn't be enough for Wolves fans. I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong this upcoming season. If not, it's time for the Wolves to move on from Thibodeau. That's my opinion and that's what makes me a proud member of the Full LST Party. :)

Jester1534 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I have yet to read any reports indicating the Wolves' pursuit of any 3-point shooters or rim-protectors. Hmm. It's the disconnect between what Thibs says and what he does. What he does is what he really means. So if you want to know what Thibodeau really thinks about the type of team he wants, just look at the players he's pursued and acquired -- Butler, Gibson, Teague, Rose, Crawford, MGH, Cole Aldrich, and now Trevor Booker and Amir Johnson. Actually, I'm not sure there's a clear pattern here other than the fact that none of these players are known for taking a lot of threes and only one of them, Teague, has shot well from behind the arc over his career. None of these players are known for playing up-tempo offense either and none of them are rim-protectors. I'd like to think all or most of these guys are known for their defense, but Teague, Rose and Crawford have never been known for the defense. Other than his affinity for his favorite former Bulls, I'm not sure what to make of Thibodeau's approach to personnel as PBO.

Um....3 point shooter...your previous post was about Gerald Green have you gone full LST? :) #fullporkchop #porkchoplegend

Also Wolfson reported Thibs talked directly to Tolliver.

Lol. Well Monster, I'm not quite full LST, but I'll admit I'm getting close. :) OK, there's one exception named Gerald Green. He's a career 36% 3-point shooter. I actually wanted to pursue him last season with our 15th roster spot, but Thibs didn't. Not sure how hard Thibs pursued him this summer and not sure I'd trust Doogie's report that he did. In that case, I shouldn't trust Doogie's report that the Wolves are pursuin Amir Johnson. However, I do believe the report we're pursuing Booker because it came from someone other than Doogie. :) As for Tolliver, I don't consider him a high-volume three-point shooter. He's similar to Teague as a relatively low-volume 37% 3-point shooter. Not bad. I'd certainly like him.

C'mon Lip...reconsider...we need you on the full LST train!

To see how close to boarding you are, let me define what it is, and see how much you disagree with. Here's the full LST Thibs platform:

1) We recognize that Thibs has had some success in the past, but does not seem to be the right guy to coach this Wolves' team.

2) We didn't support his hiring in the first place and strongly advocated that Glen replace him after year 2. Since that didn't happen, we now advocate for Glen to fire him mid-season unless we see the team responding to his coaching better than they have.

3) We recognize some good moves he has made as POBO (the Butler deal, the 2018 draft picks) and are happy to praise him when he makes them, but think on balance his bad moves outweigh the good (all other free agent moves, trades and draft picks).

4) We see a number of coaching flaws that we believe are holding the team back, including promoting a slo-mo iso offense that doesn't include enough threes, absurdly out-of-step minutes for his starters that leaves them exhausted at game-end and season-end, and poor time out management that often leaves him at a disadvantage. We see a team that has not improved much on defense during his reign, and while we put some of the blame on the players, we also give Thibs a share of the blame.

5) We see a guy whose sideline behavior is abominable, and who seems incapable of providing his players with any positive reinforcement...only anguished expressions when they do something he disapproves of. We see a guy who has not created an environment where the players seem happy and motivated to play their best.

6) We find attending games not as fun as it could be, and blame Thibs for this to some extent.


There it is...the platform of the Full LST party. Now, which parts do you disagree with?

LST - I've read your platform very carefully. I now realize that I am full LST. In fact, it's not clear that I always have been. I'll add another plank to your platform.

7. The Wolves are a last-resort option among playoff teams for free agents because of Thibodeau all of his characteristics you described above, especially his well-deserved nad accurate reputation for not playing bench players along with his incessant barking from the sideline which includes a level of minute-by-minute micromanagement that can't help but distract the players he's coaching and discourage free agent players from signing here.

So yes, I am and have always been a member of the Full LST Party. I suppose I'll be blacklisted now and for the rest of my time in Wolves fandom.

Welcome to the party! Not many of us yet, but Brooklyn_Wolf and Bleedspeed are two that come to mind. Anyone else?

I do try to be fair to Thibs, as evidenced by my immediate support on draft night of his two draft picks this year. It's just that I find so much more to criticize about him. But I suspect you are like me...if the Wolves turn things around and it looks like he is having a positive impact on this team, I will be happy to support him give him any credit he deserves. I'm not holding my breath though...his one-size fits-all obstinance and his refusal to embrace change or accept responsibility tells me that nothing is going to change.

I just can support a platform that also supports Mike Pelfrey I'm sorry LST

Ha, I don't deserve to ever be forgiven for my love for Mike Pelfrey!

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:The only news I can find out there about Tyreke is that the Warriors may give him their 5.3 mil MLE. If he goes for that and we don't at least offer him seven per I'll be a little sad. Anyone else heard anything on Evans?

I'm not sure we can afford to pay him $7 million without exceeding the luxury tax threshold by the time we sign our two rookies and fill the other two remaining roster spots with minimum vet salaries. By my calculation, it looks like we could afford to pay him around $6 million per year, assuming we let Belly go. The question is this: Would you rather have Evans or Belly? Sounds like you'd prefer Evans and I tend to agree. But I'm not sure. Belly gives us more rebounding and is familiar with his teammates and Thibs' system.

For me Gorgui just has to play better. We're not getting rid of his contract so we need him to contribute minutes. I think Evans (or Bradley)/ Gorgui is much preferable to Gorgui/Belly or Belly just flat out taking Gorgui's minutes. If we had a 3rd wing taking Gorgui's money I'd be all for Belly coming back, but we need a wing bad just for depth. I want Okogie to come in and fill that spot but for now my biggest worry for the team is how we weather the inevitable wing injury.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:We don't know whether the Wolves ever pursued Joe Harris, Ilyasova, Belinelli, Will Barton or Jerami Grant in free agency, but it doesn't much matter now since all five have been signed by other teams. Apparently, the Wolves pursued Gerald Green, but he decided to stay with the Rockets.

The more recent reports have the Wolves seeking to keep Belly while also pursuing Anthony Tolliver, Amir Johnson, Jabari Bird, Dante Cunningham and Jeff Ennis. The guy I'd most like to sign out of that group by far would be Tolliver because of his 3-point shooting. Jeff Ennis would be my next choice as a good two-way SF off the bench. Amir Johnson would be my next choice for his toughness and his ability to provide at least some rim-protection. Cunningham and Bird would be my last two choices in that order. Actually, I have no interest in signing Bird and I don't see the point of signing Dante unless the Wolves are going to trade away Gorgui. I'd rather re-sign Amile Jefferson and/or Anthony Brown over Bird or Cunningham.

Here's my prediction. I think we'll re-sign Belly. He apparently likes Minnesota and he's familiar with this team and its system. If the Wolves can offer close to $6 million per year and are willing to offer at least 3 or 4 years, then I think he'll stay. After that, with the vet minimum, I predict we won't sign Tolliver, Johnson or Ennis. At the end of the day, they won't want to play for Thibodeau and will take the vet minimum to play elsewhere. So I see us possibly signing Dante and someone else, maybe Bird. Cunningham still has very fond feeling towards Glen Taylor for supporting him when he was accused of sexual assault years ago. That affinity for Taylor plus the chance to play for a playoff team might be enough to get him here. But he'll still have to ask himself how much playing time, if any, he'll get here behind Towns, Gibson, Gorgui and Belly. It will be telling if the Wolves can't land any of these guys they're pursuing other than Bird.

Just curious why not bird. To be honest don't know much about him. But he is a young guard that the celtics offer QO on. He shoots threes in college and in the G League (not at a great clip but was a volume shooter)

Bird played 4 years of college ball and ended up hitting about 36% of his threes his senior year. That's OK, but not particularly impressive for a college senior from behind the college three-point line. His percentage actually declined from his Junior year and tha concerns me. Then flash forward to his G-League season. He only hit 32% of his threes there. He hit less than 60% of his free throws. He didn't put up impressive stats in any other category. We have two young guys in Okogie and Bates-Diop. If we're going to go with another really young guy, we ought to be able to do better than Bird. Heck, I'd take Anthony Brown over Bird. Compare his G-League and college stats to Bird's.

I took another look at the Wolves cap situation now that Rose has been signed and Cole Aldrich waived. We have $10,747,803 in luxury tax space before signing either of our two rookies. After we sign Okogie, we'll have $8,605,443 in luxury tax space. Assuming we sign Diop to the rookie minimum of $815,615, we'll be $7,789,828 under the luxury tax threshold with three roster spots to fill to get to 14. Assuming we sign two more free agent rookies at $815,615 each, we'd have $6,158,598 to pay Belly or some other veteran using the MLE if Belly signs elsewhere. If we want to sign one more vet to the vet minimum rather than signing two rookie minimums, we'd have only $5,461,612 to sign Belly or a veteran replacement for Belly.

Can we sign Belly for $6,158,598 poetry season? I think so, but keep in mind that Ilyasova signed for 3 years at $7 million per year. Can we sign Belly at $5,461,612? I'm not sure about that.

Bottom line is that it's highly unlikely we'll sign both Belly and another vet like Tolliver, Amir Johnson or even Dante Cunningham. I think the Wolves are exploring Tolliver as an alternative to Belly, in which case the Wolves would probably pay Tolliver more than the vet minimum.