Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Assuming Shamet and Thomas will be gone, my pick is still Shake Milton at 20. It's not surprising that Utah worked him out yesterday (reports are he was very impressive) as they seem to have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough (see Mitchell, Donovan). I won't be happy if we pass on him and he goes to Utah with the subsequent pick.

I also like Shake Milton. I also would recommend you to look at the ringer NBA draft guide, they put in a lot more work then NBAdraft.net. They having us picking Jacob Evans from Cinci.

I would also not say that the Jazz always kill it. For every Mitchell and Gobert there is a Hood (who can't get minutes on the Cavs), Lyles (played 0 minutes in game 82 for the Nuggets), Exum (who is hurt all the time but for as high of a pick is disappointing) and Burks (who was not playing until all the injuries).

But in the end hitting on players like Mitchell and Gobert makes up for all the so-so and disappointing picks.

No team hits on every pick. But the top organizations hit and hit big on some of their picks, which is what the Jazz did with Mitchell at 14 and Gobert at 26. Credit the Jazz even more for trading up to get Mitchell. So Mitchell wasn't a shot in the dark; it was a smart calculated pick by a very good organization. The Wolves have yet to hit big on a middle or late 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick. Flip may have hit modestly on Tyus Jones, but that's it.

I don't disagree with what you said just pointing out that making one good pick changes everything.

I mean in that same draft they drafted gobert they traded 2 picks to the wolves for trey burke a complete bust. Just imagine if gobert didn't hit they would of traded the right to select the Greek freak and a solid rotation player in gorgui (and other players like KCP, CJ, Roberson) for a guy who has been in and out of the league. Just saying one late pick hit can massively change the narrative.

I would say Pek was our last great late pick. (Gorgui and tyus quality rotation players.) We also sold so many great players like Chalmers, Parsons, Montjunas, Roberson and that is 100% Taylor's fault

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Assuming Shamet and Thomas will be gone, my pick is still Shake Milton at 20. It's not surprising that Utah worked him out yesterday (reports are he was very impressive) as they seem to have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough (see Mitchell, Donovan). I won't be happy if we pass on him and he goes to Utah with the subsequent pick.

I also like Shake Milton. I also would recommend you to look at the ringer NBA draft guide, they put in a lot more work then NBAdraft.net. They having us picking Jacob Evans from Cinci.

I would also not say that the Jazz always kill it. For every Mitchell and Gobert there is a Hood (who can't get minutes on the Cavs), Lyles (played 0 minutes in game 82 for the Nuggets), Exum (who is hurt all the time but for as high of a pick is disappointing) and Burks (who was not playing until all the injuries).

But in the end hitting on players like Mitchell and Gobert makes up for all the so-so and disappointing picks.

No team hits on every pick. But the top organizations hit and hit big on some of their picks, which is what the Jazz did with Mitchell at 14 and Gobert at 26. Credit the Jazz even more for trading up to get Mitchell. So Mitchell wasn't a shot in the dark; it was a smart calculated pick by a very good organization. The Wolves have yet to hit big on a middle or late 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick. Flip may have hit modestly on Tyus Jones, but that's it.

I don't disagree with what you said just pointing out that making one good pick changes everything.

I mean in that same draft they drafted gobert they traded 2 picks to the wolves for trey burke a complete bust. Just imagine if gobert didn't hit they would of traded the right to select the Greek freak and a solid rotation player in gorgui (and other players like KCP, CJ, Roberson) for a guy who has been in and out of the league. Just saying one late pick hit can massively change the narrative.

I would say Pek was our last great late pick. (Gorgui and tyus quality rotation players.) We also sold so many great players like Chalmers, Parsons, Montjunas, Roberson and that is 100% Taylor's fault

Actually, Pek was not a great pick if you remember the circumstances. Pek was regarded as a top 5-10 pick in that draft, but he didn't want to be limited by the rookie salary scale so he threatened not to stay in Europe if any team drafted him in the first round. The Wolves had the first pick in the 2nd round that season and did what just about any other team in the League would have done with that pick. I'll give Flip some credit for drafting both Gorgui and Tyus, but as you know the top organizations do much better than that.

As for selling picks, how about selling the first round pick we could have used to draft Gobert? Selling a first round pick is idiotic under any circumstances, but it was particularly egregious when a Gobert was available. But selling picks isn't all on Glen Taylor. Flip signed off on selling the pick we could have used to draft Gobert. The other pick sales were all done with the approval of management; Glen didn't force those moves.

As Wolves fans we just need to come to grips with the reality that the Wolves have never had a good front office and, I think most would agree, the Wolves front office has often over years has been one of the worst in the League. That's 100% on Glen! Think about it. Glen has hired 4 different guys to head the team's basketball operations - Kevin McHale, David Kahn, Flip Saunders and Tom Thibodeau. Only one of those guys, Flip Saunders, had ever worked in a basketball front office at any level before Glen hired him. And Flip's NBA front office experience was limited to several years as the Wolves GM under Kevin McHale. Not surprisingly, all four PBOs have been mediocre at best and, in Kahn's case, downright horrible. It's amazing. You'd never hire as your head coach someone who has never coached before. Why in the world would you hire someone who has never worked in a basketball front office as the head of your NBA team's front office? It's insane, but the result is certainly predictable. The answer is not having as second in command a guy like Scott Layden, whose one stint as head of another team's basketball operations was a complete failure. Yes, he worked in the Spurs organization, but there's no evidence he contributed anything of value while there and importantly the Spurs were a huge success before Layden got there and after he left.

I just don't see the Wolves becoming a championship contender with its current front office. The team barely made the playoffs last season, yet the organization is already capped out and closing in on the luxury tax threshold. Belly's contract is up and the Wolves have only a portion of the MLE to spend on a significant free agent with the vet minimum to fill in the rest of the roster. Moreover, I don't believe that either Gorgui or Teague is tradeable for good value in return. Meanwhile, the team's best player last season is coming off knee surgery and career-long durability issues. It would take a top flight front office to create a title contender our of that situation. Unfortunately, a top flight organization is something we still don't have.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:Assuming Shamet and Thomas will be gone, my pick is still Shake Milton at 20. It's not surprising that Utah worked him out yesterday (reports are he was very impressive) as they seem to have a knack for finding diamonds in the rough (see Mitchell, Donovan). I won't be happy if we pass on him and he goes to Utah with the subsequent pick.

I also like Shake Milton. I also would recommend you to look at the ringer NBA draft guide, they put in a lot more work then NBAdraft.net. They having us picking Jacob Evans from Cinci.

I would also not say that the Jazz always kill it. For every Mitchell and Gobert there is a Hood (who can't get minutes on the Cavs), Lyles (played 0 minutes in game 82 for the Nuggets), Exum (who is hurt all the time but for as high of a pick is disappointing) and Burks (who was not playing until all the injuries).

But in the end hitting on players like Mitchell and Gobert makes up for all the so-so and disappointing picks.

No team hits on every pick. But the top organizations hit and hit big on some of their picks, which is what the Jazz did with Mitchell at 14 and Gobert at 26. Credit the Jazz even more for trading up to get Mitchell. So Mitchell wasn't a shot in the dark; it was a smart calculated pick by a very good organization. The Wolves have yet to hit big on a middle or late 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick. Flip may have hit modestly on Tyus Jones, but that's it.

I don't disagree with what you said just pointing out that making one good pick changes everything.

I mean in that same draft they drafted gobert they traded 2 picks to the wolves for trey burke a complete bust. Just imagine if gobert didn't hit they would of traded the right to select the Greek freak and a solid rotation player in gorgui (and other players like KCP, CJ, Roberson) for a guy who has been in and out of the league. Just saying one late pick hit can massively change the narrative.

I would say Pek was our last great late pick. (Gorgui and tyus quality rotation players.) We also sold so many great players like Chalmers, Parsons, Montjunas, Roberson and that is 100% Taylor's fault

Actually, Pek was not a great pick if you remember the circumstances. Pek was regarded as a top 5-10 pick in that draft, but he didn't want to be limited by the rookie salary scale so he threatened not to stay in Europe if any team drafted him in the first round. The Wolves had the first pick in the 2nd round that season and did what just about any other team in the League would have done with that pick. I'll give Flip some credit for drafting both Gorgui and Tyus, but as you know the top organizations do much better than that.

As for selling picks, how about selling the first round pick we could have used to draft Gobert? Selling a first round pick is idiotic under any circumstances, but it was particularly egregious when a Gobert was available. But selling picks isn't all on Glen Taylor. Flip signed off on selling the pick we could have used to draft Gobert. The other pick sales were all done with the approval of management; Glen didn't force those moves.

As Wolves fans we just need to come to grips with the reality that the Wolves have never had a good front office and, I think most would agree, the Wolves front office has often over years has been one of the worst in the League. That's 100% on Glen! Think about it. Glen has hired 4 different guys to head the team's basketball operations - Kevin McHale, David Kahn, Flip Saunders and Tom Thibodeau. Only one of those guys, Flip Saunders, had ever worked in a basketball front office at any level before Glen hired him. And Flip's NBA front office experience was limited to several years as the Wolves GM under Kevin McHale. Not surprisingly, all four PBOs have been mediocre at best and, in Kahn's case, downright horrible. It's amazing. You'd never hire as your head coach someone who has never coached before. Why in the world would you hire someone who has never worked in a basketball front office as the head of your NBA team's front office? It's insane, but the result is certainly predictable. The answer is not having as second in command a guy like Scott Layden, whose one stint as head of another team's basketball operations was a complete failure. Yes, he worked in the Spurs organization, but there's no evidence he contributed anything of value while there and importantly the Spurs were a huge success before Layden got there and after he left.

I just don't see the Wolves becoming a championship contender with its current front office. The team barely made the playoffs last season, yet the organization is already capped out and closing in on the luxury tax threshold. Belly's contract is up and the Wolves have only a portion of the MLE to spend on a significant free agent with the vet minimum to fill in the rest of the roster. Moreover, I don't believe that either Gorgui or Teague is tradeable for good value in return. Meanwhile, the team's best player last season is coming off knee surgery and career-long durability issues. It would take a top flight front office to create a title contender our of that situation. Unfortunately, a top flight organization is something we still don't have.

I'd say that when Glen took over this joke of a franchise and put McHAle and Flip in charge the first few years that was a pretty successful move. Down the road there was some missteps but there was also some pretty bad luck. Glen probably should have moved on from McHale sooner but the hire was pretty good at the start. Elite front office? No but they did make some pretty good moves people forget about. It's just over 18 years since Malik Sealey passed away. He was a FA but he was one of the lower level FAs that McHale and Flip were actually pretty good at getting a lot out of. It's the kind of thing this current FO and coach would do well to accomplish the next few years.

But I agree with your larger point. I would have liked to see what Flip would have done even if he had some missteps. Utah didn't hit on every draft pick and neither did Flip but he made some pretty good moves. Let's see if this current group can make up for some of their bad moves this summer. I'm staying optimistic. It would be nice to add a bit of good luck.

It's still pretty early but the ESPN/draft express guys had their latest mock draft up today. There was some interesting movement. One interesting happenstance was they had the Wolves selecting Metu with the 2nd round pick a few minutes ago and now when I looked back to see where Alkins was they had him with the Wolves selection. I'm starting to get excited about this draft I think the Wolves could come away with 2 worthwhile players with their picks. #optimismreigns

I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

WildWolf2813 wrote:I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

Yeah if they don't draft one shooter yes it's a fail. About the only way I would say it isn't is somehow the draft fell and guys were picked where basically you were reaching for a shooter over a clearly better player. That seems VERY unlikely.

Svi in the 2nd round would be awesome. I am sure some various players have upped their stock but I'd be THILLED to get him there.

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

Yeah if they don't draft one shooter yes it's a fail. About the only way I would say it isn't is somehow the draft fell and guys were picked where basically you were reaching for a shooter over a clearly better player. That seems VERY unlikely.

Svi in the 2nd round would be awesome. I am sure some various players have upped their stock but I'd be THILLED to get him there.

We may have to talk Lip off the ledge if we draft Svi...he could be the only guy in the draft with a wingspan (6'4.75") shorter than his height! Combine that with his below average lateral speed, and I don't know who he will be able to guard in the NBA. Good shooter, but is his shooting enough to make up for his defensive and rebounding deficiencies?

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

Yeah if they don't draft one shooter yes it's a fail. About the only way I would say it isn't is somehow the draft fell and guys were picked where basically you were reaching for a shooter over a clearly better player. That seems VERY unlikely.

Svi in the 2nd round would be awesome. I am sure some various players have upped their stock but I'd be THILLED to get him there.

We may have to talk Lip off the ledge if we draft Svi...he could be the only guy in the draft with a wingspan (6'4.75") shorter than his height! Combine that with his below average lateral speed, and I don't know who he will be able to guard in the NBA. Good shooter, but is his shooting enough to make up for his defensive and rebounding deficiencies?

Ok yeah that is a big physical deficiency. That makes it understandable why he is lower than I would have expected. Still he is 6' 6.5" in bare foot and he is a good shooter. He turns 21 in a few days so still kinda young. The guy just looks like a basketball player. Lip tends to like guys that put up good shooting percentages. He had a down year shooting from 2 point range but shot 44% from 3 and almost 41% college 3 point shooting. Maybe there will be a guy I like better but I think we could do worse because this team needs shooting and Svi (thank goodness someone had a shorter way to refer to him!) looks like a guy that can provide that. Expecting a guy that can shoot and defend at #48...ok I'm optimistic but i'll Take a guy that can do one of them. If he is a bench guy there will be some other poor wing player he will be able to guard.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

Yeah if they don't draft one shooter yes it's a fail. About the only way I would say it isn't is somehow the draft fell and guys were picked where basically you were reaching for a shooter over a clearly better player. That seems VERY unlikely.

Svi in the 2nd round would be awesome. I am sure some various players have upped their stock but I'd be THILLED to get him there.

We may have to talk Lip off the ledge if we draft Svi...he could be the only guy in the draft with a wingspan (6'4.75") shorter than his height! Combine that with his below average lateral speed, and I don't know who he will be able to guard in the NBA. Good shooter, but is his shooting enough to make up for his defensive and rebounding deficiencies?

If we draft svi, we might as well add 6'4.75 wingspan to his name as lip will surely bring that up every chance he gets when talking about him. :)

worldK wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:I HATE the idea of Metu in the 2nd round. That dude straight up quit on USC.


Svi looks like a realistic pick at 48.


All I know is regardless of who they pick and how they do, if they don't address their shooting problems in this draft, they failed. Period. End of story.

Yeah if they don't draft one shooter yes it's a fail. About the only way I would say it isn't is somehow the draft fell and guys were picked where basically you were reaching for a shooter over a clearly better player. That seems VERY unlikely.

Svi in the 2nd round would be awesome. I am sure some various players have upped their stock but I'd be THILLED to get him there.

We may have to talk Lip off the ledge if we draft Svi...he could be the only guy in the draft with a wingspan (6'4.75") shorter than his height! Combine that with his below average lateral speed, and I don't know who he will be able to guard in the NBA. Good shooter, but is his shooting enough to make up for his defensive and rebounding deficiencies?

If we draft svi, we might as well add 6'4.75 wingspan to his name as lip will surely bring that up every chance he gets when talking about him. :)

Yes, I will. :) As Monster suggested, I like Svi's 3-point shooting percentage. But those tiny arm of his will be a serious handicap in the NBA. I'll have to watch some videos to get a sense of his handle and the speed of his release because he'll need several tools on the offensive end to be worth the defensive disaster he's likely to be.