thedoper wrote:Anyone following the Wiggins / Stephen Jackson fallout that's been happening? Wiggins certainly doesn't lack motor when talking shit about Stephen Jackson. This is getting fun. Somehow I think this whole ordeal is going to light a fire under Wiggins and Towns. Love it.
Wiggins is wet wood. There has never been any fire there and the internet isn't going to change that. If he cared half as much on the basketball court as he did on the internet, he'd almost be worth his contract and Butler might have been more likely to want to stay.
Butler is a bitch and he can go. I'd take Wiggins over Butler's hot air any day. At least Wiggins didn't sit on the bench for game 7 against the Rockets.
Doper haven't you been one of the main activists for the Butler trade since day one?
I still think we're better off contract wise to not have Lavine's 18 million contract pushing us to the luxury tax if that helps you understand my thinking. The trade from my perspective wasn't about Butler long term, but retooling around our best assets (Towns and Wiggins) and keeping financial flexibility.
Financial flexibility for what? The free agent signing that we have never seen and won't ever see until we organically grow into something relevant??? The warriors were present, LeBron was still alive. It was a Thibs saving trade, not an organization saving trade.
LaVine may never be great, but he at least can shoot a 3, was fine being the third option, and wouldn't impede Wiggins' growth. Oh, but defense... Has nobody realized that defense is marginalized. And if you wanted defense on the perimeter, put Dunn out there with Rubio..
Financial flexibility to re-sign or maintain a 3rd player via trade who is better than Lavine (which shouldn't be that hard to do). I just don't think Lavine was anything more than a bench player long term in the NBA, and settling for a 10 seed with no cap flexibility would have been more than problematic as I see it. We're a 10 seed now with a major asset to trade and acquire talent with, plus we have short term contracts coming off the books soon. Thibs plan clearly didn't work smoothly, but we are by no means in a desperate situation.
BizarroJerry wrote:So Stephen A. Jackson is gonna make Wiggins start diving for loose balls? Got it.
My point was more that all the shit Towns and Wiggins have been taking can make them bind closer together as teammates and could have a positive effect in how they work together on the court. They've certainly got something to prove now, since their play seems to be that they don't need Jimmy.
thedoper wrote:Anyone following the Wiggins / Stephen Jackson fallout that's been happening? Wiggins certainly doesn't lack motor when talking shit about Stephen Jackson. This is getting fun. Somehow I think this whole ordeal is going to light a fire under Wiggins and Towns. Love it.
Wiggins is wet wood. There has never been any fire there and the internet isn't going to change that. If he cared half as much on the basketball court as he did on the internet, he'd almost be worth his contract and Butler might have been more likely to want to stay.
Butler is a bitch and he can go. I'd take Wiggins over Butler's hot air any day. At least Wiggins didn't sit on the bench for game 7 against the Rockets.
Doper haven't you been one of the main activists for the Butler trade since day one?
I still think we're better off contract wise to not have Lavine's 18 million contract pushing us to the luxury tax if that helps you understand my thinking. The trade from my perspective wasn't about Butler long term, but retooling around our best assets (Towns and Wiggins) and keeping financial flexibility.
Financial flexibility for what? The free agent signing that we have never seen and won't ever see until we organically grow into something relevant??? The warriors were present, LeBron was still alive. It was a Thibs saving trade, not an organization saving trade.
LaVine may never be great, but he at least can shoot a 3, was fine being the third option, and wouldn't impede Wiggins' growth. Oh, but defense... Has nobody realized that defense is marginalized. And if you wanted defense on the perimeter, put Dunn out there with Rubio..
Financial flexibility to re-sign or maintain a 3rd player via trade who is better than Lavine (which shouldn't be that hard to do). I just don't think Lavine was anything more than a bench player long term in the NBA, and settling for a 10 seed with no cap flexibility would have been more than problematic as I see it. We're a 10 seed now with a major asset to trade and acquire talent with, plus we have short term contracts coming off the books soon. Thibs plan clearly didn't work smoothly, but we are by no means in a desperate situation.
We obviously disagree on LaVine. He fits the new NBA.
if we kept our #13 pick, #3 pick, and #7 pick, plus added two lottery picks in this draft - we are likely in a much better financial and talent situation than we are currently.
Plus, we would likely not have signed taj, traded rubio to sign Teagie for more $. We would have had flexibility to add talent this season still.
thedoper wrote:Anyone following the Wiggins / Stephen Jackson fallout that's been happening? Wiggins certainly doesn't lack motor when talking shit about Stephen Jackson. This is getting fun. Somehow I think this whole ordeal is going to light a fire under Wiggins and Towns. Love it.
Wiggins is wet wood. There has never been any fire there and the internet isn't going to change that. If he cared half as much on the basketball court as he did on the internet, he'd almost be worth his contract and Butler might have been more likely to want to stay.
Butler is a bitch and he can go. I'd take Wiggins over Butler's hot air any day. At least Wiggins didn't sit on the bench for game 7 against the Rockets.
Doper haven't you been one of the main activists for the Butler trade since day one?
I still think we're better off contract wise to not have Lavine's 18 million contract pushing us to the luxury tax if that helps you understand my thinking. The trade from my perspective wasn't about Butler long term, but retooling around our best assets (Towns and Wiggins) and keeping financial flexibility.
Financial flexibility for what? The free agent signing that we have never seen and won't ever see until we organically grow into something relevant??? The warriors were present, LeBron was still alive. It was a Thibs saving trade, not an organization saving trade.
LaVine may never be great, but he at least can shoot a 3, was fine being the third option, and wouldn't impede Wiggins' growth. Oh, but defense... Has nobody realized that defense is marginalized. And if you wanted defense on the perimeter, put Dunn out there with Rubio..
Financial flexibility to re-sign or maintain a 3rd player via trade who is better than Lavine (which shouldn't be that hard to do). I just don't think Lavine was anything more than a bench player long term in the NBA, and settling for a 10 seed with no cap flexibility would have been more than problematic as I see it. We're a 10 seed now with a major asset to trade and acquire talent with, plus we have short term contracts coming off the books soon. Thibs plan clearly didn't work smoothly, but we are by no means in a desperate situation.
We obviously disagree on LaVine. He is the new NBA.
if we kept our #13 pick, #3 pick, and #7 pick, plus added two lottery picks in this draft - we are likely in a much better financial and talent situation than we are currently.
Plus, we would likely not have signed taj, traded rubio to sign Teagie for more $. We would have had flexibility to add talent this season still.
I think we would have been maxed out for the next 5 years and still a 10 seed under your plan. Now we're a 10 seed with way more flexibility.
The Teague and Taj Contracts were great because they're short.
I get liking Lavine, and like you said it's clearly the crux of the philosophical disagreement here. I just don't see any way that we're not in the lottery with him as our 3rd option. Wish him the best, but I'm glad I don't have to watch him play basketball for a whole season.
If you didn't see this coming from a mile away - you're a fucking idiot.
We are in a cap crunch because Thibs went all in while the best team ever was already assembled. It was never long term - it was Thibs trying to save his own ass for the long term.
The way some are portraying the Butler deal is we are getting nothing from him in a trade. We are gonna get something. If Thibs and Layden can get a 1st round pick for Rubio they can get something worthwhile for Jimmy Butler. The idea that Thibs and Glen have been all in on winning ASAP isn't completely accurate either. Both guys wanted to win but they also made moves to keep the future in play. The draft pick that is Josh Okogie is probably the most significant example.
monsterpile wrote:The way some are portraying the Butler deal is we are getting nothing from him in a trade. We are gonna get something. If Thibs and Layden can get a 1st round pick for Rubio they can get something worthwhile for Jimmy Butler. The idea that Thibs and Glen have been all in on winning ASAP isn't completely accurate either. Both guys wanted to win but they also made moves to keep the future in play. The draft pick that is Josh Okogie is probably the most significant example.
Well we can reserve judgment on any rookies until proven.
The facts are that Thibs traded the guy he picked at #3 in Dunn + LaVine + #7 for Butler and #16 then took another damn center. Then traded Rubio for a pick and signed a guy for more money who wants to be a second or third option.
Rationalize all you want, but Thibs was never the answer. Especially in a dual power role.
monsterpile wrote:The way some are portraying the Butler deal is we are getting nothing from him in a trade. We are gonna get something. If Thibs and Layden can get a 1st round pick for Rubio they can get something worthwhile for Jimmy Butler. The idea that Thibs and Glen have been all in on winning ASAP isn't completely accurate either. Both guys wanted to win but they also made moves to keep the future in play. The draft pick that is Josh Okogie is probably the most significant example.
Fair point, although I think Glen's patience was very limited, as was the general fanbase. Let's also not forget that Thibs DID try to win with the young core. He went with the Wiggins-KAT-LaVine trio for a full season and they couldn't move the needle. Then LaVine tore his knee up, jeopardizing the following season too (and indeed we saw that he didn't do much with Chicago last year).
TheFuture wrote:If you didn't see this coming from a mile away - you're a fucking idiot.
We are in a cap crunch because Thibs went all in while the best team ever was already assembled. It was never long term - it was Thibs trying to save his own ass for the long term.
Total: 100,744,300
So we are just under the cap figure and next year we would go into the lux tax giving KAT his 23 million dollar raise, also would have to resign Ricky and Tyus would be up for free agency.
So where is this magical cap space you talk about that would be here if we didn't do the Butler trade.
