Rubio vs. Teague-let's continue to monitor

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I posted in the interesting stats thread about how the Wolves had their first five game win streak since the season before Ricky was drafted. It's probably just a coincidence but the reality is that win streaks take consistency from its players. That is one thing Rubio has never shown. He'll give ya flashes but he can't give you the game to game consistency it takes to be the leader of a playoff team.

Don't forget, the Wolves actually have a bench now. Coming from one of the worst benches last season.

If you theoretically swapped Ricky and Teague out and left the roster now as is with added in Taj and Butler I really don't feel like we would see any difference really in wins and losses.

I wasn't one to blame one player for the losses when the bench was always giving up big leads, especially when defensively the other starters were not getting it done either.

Even with Love, same thing. No interior defense. Just a lay up line and a crappy bench.

It's completely non-sensical to blame one player for the Timberwolves past ineptness.

Wolvesfan, Everything you say is spot on, but it's not worth debating with Pork. He is so anti-Rubio that we once named the degree to which one was against Rubio using his handle as the measurement. (e.g. I'm 100% Pork, which means 100% anti-Rubio).

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The Jazz are just really lacking offensive talent. Now watch them score 150 on us next Monday.

That's been the primary critique of their offseason moves - they never really replaced Hayward's shot creation and scoring. Now we are starting to see it. Rubio was never meant to be a volume scorer and Hood and Mitchell just aren't there yet. Mitchell could be the guy some day though.

[Wolvesfan21]

I posted in the interesting stats thread about how the Wolves had their first five game win streak since the season before Ricky was drafted. It's probably just a coincidence but the reality is that win streaks take consistency from its players. That is one thing Rubio has never shown. He'll give ya flashes but he can't give you the game to game consistency it takes to be the leader of a playoff team.

Don't forget, the Wolves actually have a bench now. Coming from one of the worst benches last season.

If you theoretically swapped Ricky and Teague out and left the roster now as is with added in Taj and Butler I really don't feel like we would see any difference really in wins and losses.

I wasn't one to blame one player for the losses when the bench was always giving up big leads, especially when defensively the other starters were not getting it done either.

Even with Love, same thing. No interior defense. Just a lay up line and a crappy bench.

It's completely non-sensical to blame one player for the Timberwolves past ineptness.

Wolvesfan, Everything you say is spot on, but it's not worth debating with Pork. He is so anti-Rubio that we once named the degree to which one was against Rubio using his handle as the measurement. (e.g. I'm 100% Pork, which means 100% anti-Rubio).

Many people really like to over simplify things, especially in team sports. The thing is though, it's usually a myriad of things which makes things complicated. Rubio was one of the better players on the Wolves team and he played hard consistently (which is why he was a starter). It's like the people who blamed Love's defense on why they never made the playoffs with him. Sure it was part of it, but place a Anthony Davis next to him to protect the rim and all of a sudden the Wolves win 15-20 more games.

Add in a better bench at anytime over Rubios career with the Wolves and we have a much better record. Every player has some type of weakness in their game. Instead of focusing on Rubios shooting, maybe consider the other 8-10 players and what they are doing as well.

Ever since KG left I can't think of one Wolves team that had a good defense and bench. We might have both now, we'll see after another 20-30 games and how well they gel.

In the end, the Rubio vs Teague is a meh talker for me. Teague is a better scorer and shooter around the rim. Rubio I think has a slight edge overall on defense because of his intensity and effort plus obviously the much better playmaker and passer. Neither is a top 10 PG, both are about avg. in my book.

[bleedspeed]

Does anyone think a team where Teague is the team leader is going to win many games? It is really hard to compare them, but I am still more of a Rubio fan than Teague.

[kekgeek]

Does anyone think a team where Teague is the team leader is going to win many games? It is really hard to compare them, but I am still more of a Rubio fan than Teague.

It's hard to say. Teague was the 3rd best player on a 60 win team and has never missed the playoffs. Ricky has been a top 3 player on every team and has never made the playoffs.

But the situations have been different and in my opinion there is no way to answer your question without a flat out guess

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Does anyone think a team where Teague is the team leader is going to win many games? It is really hard to compare them, but I am still more of a Rubio fan than Teague.

Probably not, but what's that matter? Ricky for sure doesn't win much as a team leader and it's impossible to know with Teague. They're both supporting guys. Teague is a better supporting piece to our 3 guys who need the ball in Jimmy, Towns and Wiggins. Ricky needs the ball to be effective so you have to take those touches from someone. The main difference I see is Teague is a proven winner as a supporting piece. Ricky is not. At some point that just has to matter. How many years will Ricky need to keep losing or barely be .500 before it comes back on him? I've never understood the notion that he's a top 3 caliber player on a winning team, but bears little brunt of the blame when it comes to wins and losses. Benches don't win and lose that many games in this league. At some point it has to come back on your top players and it never did with him here.

[Wolvesfan21]

Put Ricky on Cleveland and they don't miss a beat, well, not this year. LeBron is playing extremely well but their team is sub .500 I think. Which again proves, ONE GUY doesn't matter. No matter how good or bad he is, he's not the reason why you win or lose.

That is the only thing that some of the Ricky haters don't get. The ones who booed him at home games last season. Why point the finger at him? What about Shabazz or Belly while they were stinking it up. Or KAT and Wiggins for not playing good defense?

Ricky was also not being paid highly either so you can't make that argument.

Basketball is a team game. Jordan wouldn't have won much without Pippen. Kobe couldn't win without Shaq or Gasol. LeBron needs two other stars to get it done.

Maybe peoples expectations were too high for him, He was an avg PG. Oh and Ricky shoots a higher 3 percentage then Teague (career or last year I forget). He was not really that bad a shooter.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Maybe peoples expectations were too high for him, He was an avg PG. Oh and Ricky shoots a higher 3 percentage then Teague (career or last year I forget). He was not really that bad a shooter.

That's false. Rubio has shot better than Teague only season (2014) in their careers... 33.1% vs. 32.9%.

For their careers, Teague is at 35.7% and Rubio is at 31.4%.

[Wolvesfan21]

Maybe peoples expectations were too high for him, He was an avg PG. Oh and Ricky shoots a higher 3 percentage then Teague (career or last year I forget). He was not really that bad a shooter.

That's false. Rubio has shot better than Teague only season (2014) in their careers... 33.1% vs. 32.9%.

For their careers, Teague is at 35.7% and Rubio is at 31.4%.

Oh yeah, you're right. My memory must be effed up because I thought Rubio was over 35% last year from 3. Maybe that was just the second half (after All-star break) stat that I remembered.

So correction. Teague might be a very minor upgrade over Rubio IMO. I still liked Rubios constant effort, game in and game out. That's half the battle. Players taking it easy.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Put Ricky on Cleveland and they don't miss a beat, well, not this year. LeBron is playing extremely well but their team is sub .500 I think. Which again proves, ONE GUY doesn't matter. No matter how good or bad he is, he's not the reason why you win or lose.

That is the only thing that some of the Ricky haters don't get. The ones who booed him at home games last season. Why point the finger at him? What about Shabazz or Belly while they were stinking it up. Or KAT and Wiggins for not playing good defense?

Ricky was also not being paid highly either so you can't make that argument.

Basketball is a team game. Jordan wouldn't have won much without Pippen. Kobe couldn't win without Shaq or Gasol. LeBron needs two other stars to get it done.

Maybe peoples expectations were too high for him, He was an avg PG. Oh and Ricky shoots a higher 3 percentage then Teague (career or last year I forget). He was not really that bad a shooter.

Ricky was the highest paid player on the team last year.

In the regular season 1 guy can make a difference. Look at Russ and Harden. Put support pieces around them and they still get to .500. Basketball is a team game, but you can't tout a guy for being a great defender and the straw that stirs the drink and then completely absolve him of all blame that we can't win and put it on everyone else. He's either average and doesn't do enough to help you win in his role on the team or he's great and deserves a healthy chunk of blame for us not being able to win for the last half decade. But people on here tout him as great with little responsibility towards our ineptitude.

That's my problem with this debate. It's always about how great he is yet he never bears the brunt of winning which all good players bear. It's always someone else's fault. Someone else always needs to be that reason we win games. He's 5-6 so far in Utah with a team full of shooters around him and an elite defense behind him. Who's fault is it there? I'm gonna guess people say none of his. Expectations weren't too high for him here. The praise for him just doesn't match the production in the W-L column.