thedoper wrote:I can't believe the talk is about Wiggins after that game. It's not even about basketball anymore here. Ridiculous.
I think it's because Zach LaVine just provided a terrific example of why people wanted to keep him over Andrew Wiggins even with an ACL injury. He's engaged, willing, and confident in all moments. He's not scared of failure. I think as fans we appreciate that more than someone who tends to disappear when the situation gets more difficult.
And to be fair, Wiggins does have some clutch moments, but it seems that does not compare to how many games he's gone invisible in. Like tonight he started 5-5 from the field and then faded into the sunset...
Zach had a great game, he's had them before. But Wiggins disappearing is a much larger biproduct of your favorite coach than anything he does. Again, what is he supposed to do? Say sit down Thibs, i got this?
Wiggins has done impressions of Houdini long before Thibs arrived, so...
Again, I don't blame this loss on Wiggins. It's just a reminder of what we gave up and what we have now. For those that felt like LaVine was the better of the two, this game stings. That's all.
It's one game Cam! And I love Zach too. I used to defend him against the whole board when we was a first and second year player. Don't overreact so much. Zach had a lot of natural motivation in this one, kind of like when Wiggins plays Cleveland. Zach's great performance is no reason to bag on Wiggins tonight. But I knew you and SP and Wolves were going to do it. It's clearly a pattern after wins and losses.
One game of what? There was already a strong case that LaVine was better than Wiggins based on 100+ games. And we've seen Wiggins start hot only to leave the building time and time again. Tonight didn't change anything for most of us, if not everyone. And even with that said, I still don't blame Andrew for the loss. I think I've said that a handful of times already.
You overreact and get emotional literally every time someone criticizes Andrew. It's never his fault in your book. He's secretly the greatest player in the world, but we just won't know it because that terrible man named Thibodeau is holding him down. Right? And that mean guy Jimmy Butler won't give him the ball or else the most clutch player Wiggins would win the game. Poor Andrew. Give me a break.
On top of it, you sparked responses when you told SP to go fuck himself, essentially. Another example of you pouring fuel on the fire. But yet it's me who is overreacting... me who gets emotional... Right.
Who was that guy that brought up Wig's turnovers tonight? Wasn't it me? I didn't see anybody else mention it.
And yes, you are the king of the knee jerk reaction. Your commentary after the game was so predictable i was laughing out loud. You lock on to something and you never let go. From Stauskas to Thibs to the kid from Arizona who I'm not even sure is in the league anymore. Can't wait for the next time one of your boys does something so we can all be reminded of it again,
In the end we might regret not trading Wiggins instead of Lavine. I like both players a lot, and I think they both will be very solid NBA players. But it is so hard to compare how player X would do than player Y in certain situations. Now if Lavine was on this team instead of Wiggins, he would be the third option and how would he do if he was asked to stand in the corner like Wiggins is. We are looking at different roles, Lavine on the Bulls is asked to do almost everything for them down the clutch and damn was he good tonight and good for him.
Like everyone else has said we need to run shit in the last 5 minutes of the game, I am fine with Jimmy taking the shots but lets run him off screens, lets post him up, lets get more ball movement so teams can't load up on him like they did tonight leaving Tyus open and one possession where they left Wiggins wide open and Wiggins missed the open 3.
I don't think we are far off being a really good team, but we have some pretty bad late game execution and I think that is fixable. Like even tonight we had a wide open 3 by our best 3 point shooter and he missed it. I will take that shot 10 out of 10 times.
Don't you think with Lavine's handle Thibs would use him more rather than a diet of 100% Butler late in close games? Lavine can get where he wants and still possess the ball once he gets there unlike every Wolves player not named Butler!
I thought it was idiotic last season when Thibs would put the ball in Wiggins hands to run the half-court offense when he had LaVine, who has always been a MUCH better ball-handler and shooter than Wiggins. That's an indictment of Thibs as head coach. Trading LaVine instead of Wiggins and giving up more assets in the process is an indictment of Thibs PBO.
Who was the better head coach tonight, Thibs or Fred?
While we're on the subject of Wiggins, how did he not shoot a single free throw tonight? His ability to draw fouls is gone this year -- let alone actually making them when he gets there (63.3%). Attempts are down from 7.0 to 6.6 and 4.0 this season. That's not the trend we had hoped for.
In the end we might regret not trading Wiggins instead of Lavine. I like both players a lot, and I think they both will be very solid NBA players. But it is so hard to compare how player X would do than player Y in certain situations. Now if Lavine was on this team instead of Wiggins, he would be the third option and how would he do if he was asked to stand in the corner like Wiggins is. We are looking at different roles, Lavine on the Bulls is asked to do almost everything for them down the clutch and damn was he good tonight and good for him.
Like everyone else has said we need to run shit in the last 5 minutes of the game, I am fine with Jimmy taking the shots but lets run him off screens, lets post him up, lets get more ball movement so teams can't load up on him like they did tonight leaving Tyus open and one possession where they left Wiggins wide open and Wiggins missed the open 3.
I don't think we are far off being a really good team, but we have some pretty bad late game execution and I think that is fixable. Like even tonight we had a wide open 3 by our best 3 point shooter and he missed it. I will take that shot 10 out of 10 times.
Don't you think with Lavine's handle Thibs would use him more rather than a diet of 100% Butler late in close games? Lavine can get where he wants and still possess the ball once he gets there unlike every Wolves player not named Butler!
I thought it was idiotic last season when Thibs would put the ball in Wiggins hands to run the half-court offense when he had LaVine, who has always been a MUCH better ball-handler and shooter than Wiggins. That's an indictment of Thibs as head coach. Trading LaVine instead of Wiggins and giving up more assets in the process is an indictment of Thibs PBO.
Who was the better head coach tonight, Thibs or Fred?
I am just saying, if we make that trade Wiggins instead of Lavine, we might not be in the playoffs right now, with Lavine coming off an ACL injury. I am not going to blame Thibs for not taking that risk.
In the end we still dont know. Mad props to Zach though, still one of my favorite players in the League.
Camden wrote:While we're on the subject of Wiggins, how did he not shoot a single free throw tonight? His ability to draw fouls is gone this year -- let alone actually making them when he gets there (63.3%). Attempts are down from 7.0 to 6.6 and 4.0 this season. That's not the trend we had hoped for.
Don't stop there. Isn't there more you want to get off your chest? He didn't have any assists tonight. Only 1 blocked shot. He didn't take a charge, no offensive rebounds. Let's just turn another thread into a complete Wiggins shitfest. After all, even if we won, he was brutal tonight.
thedoper wrote:I can't believe the talk is about Wiggins after that game. It's not even about basketball anymore here. Ridiculous.
I think it's because Zach LaVine just provided a terrific example of why people wanted to keep him over Andrew Wiggins even with an ACL injury. He's engaged, willing, and confident in all moments. He's not scared of failure. I think as fans we appreciate that more than someone who tends to disappear when the situation gets more difficult.
And to be fair, Wiggins does have some clutch moments, but it seems that does not compare to how many games he's gone invisible in. Like tonight he started 5-5 from the field and then faded into the sunset...
Zach had a great game, he's had them before. But Wiggins disappearing is a much larger biproduct of your favorite coach than anything he does. Again, what is he supposed to do? Say sit down Thibs, i got this?
Wiggins has done impressions of Houdini long before Thibs arrived, so...
Again, I don't blame this loss on Wiggins. It's just a reminder of what we gave up and what we have now. For those that felt like LaVine was the better of the two, this game stings. That's all.
It's one game Cam! And I love Zach too. I used to defend him against the whole board when we was a first and second year player. Don't overreact so much. Zach had a lot of natural motivation in this one, kind of like when Wiggins plays Cleveland. Zach's great performance is no reason to bag on Wiggins tonight. But I knew you and SP and Wolves were going to do it. It's clearly a pattern after wins and losses.
One game of what? There was already a strong case that LaVine was better than Wiggins based on 100+ games. And we've seen Wiggins start hot only to leave the building time and time again. Tonight didn't change anything for most of us, if not everyone. And even with that said, I still don't blame Andrew for the loss. I think I've said that a handful of times already.
You overreact and get emotional literally every time someone criticizes Andrew. It's never his fault in your book. He's secretly the greatest player in the world, but we just won't know it because that terrible man named Thibodeau is holding him down. Right? And that mean guy Jimmy Butler won't give him the ball or else the most clutch player Wiggins would win the game. Poor Andrew. Give me a break.
On top of it, you sparked responses when you told SP to go fuck himself, essentially. Another example of you pouring fuel on the fire. But yet it's me who is overreacting... me who gets emotional... Right.
Who was that guy that brought up Wig's turnovers tonight? Wasn't it me? I didn't see anybody else mention it.
And yes, you are the king of the knee jerk reaction. Your commentary after the game was so predictable i was laughing out loud. You lock on to something and you never let go. From Stauskas to Thibs to the kid from Arizona who I'm not even sure is in the league anymore. Can't wait for the next time one of your boys does something so we can all be reminded of it again,
Your feelings get hurt by someone discussing your favorite player. That's all this is.
Camden wrote:While we're on the subject of Wiggins, how did he not shoot a single free throw tonight? His ability to draw fouls is gone this year -- let alone actually making them when he gets there (63.3%). Attempts are down from 7.0 to 6.6 and 4.0 this season. That's not the trend we had hoped for.
Don't stop there. Isn't there more you want to get off your chest? He didn't have any assists tonight. Only 1 blocked shot. He didn't take a charge, no offensive rebounds. Let's just turn another thread into a complete Wiggins shitfest. After all, even if we won, he was brutal tonight.
kekgeek1 wrote:Also it is not really fair to Jimmy on how he was being used. Like Lavine had to take just as many shots as Bulter did in the 4th but it was how they were using him. Running him off screens, moving off the ball even though Lavine wasn't going to pass it, the help defense couldn't load up on Lavine. Just having movement at the end of the game would help so much for Butler so everyone can't just load up on Jimmy. Thats my biggest gripe is not that Jimmy is shooting it, it is how he is getting his shot.
Great point, geek! I mentioned to my wife as we were watching the 4th quarter that LaVine's shots were much easier than Butler's. It's exactly as you said. It's a motionless, stagnant poorly spaced offense in 4th quarters with Butler attacking the heart of the defense trying to score while surrounded by at least 3 defenders.
Camden wrote:While we're on the subject of Wiggins, how did he not shoot a single free throw tonight? His ability to draw fouls is gone this year -- let alone actually making them when he gets there (63.3%). Attempts are down from 7.0 to 6.6 and 4.0 this season. That's not the trend we had hoped for.
Wiggins is shooting a career low on % of attempts within 3 feet this year at 22% of his shots from that close. His previous low was 29%. He still shoots the same amount of long 2s, but his 3pt attempt % is at a career high. Wish he would keep that 3pt attempt % the same but get back to high % at the rim instead of the long 2s.
Camden wrote:While we're on the subject of Wiggins, how did he not shoot a single free throw tonight? His ability to draw fouls is gone this year -- let alone actually making them when he gets there (63.3%). Attempts are down from 7.0 to 6.6 and 4.0 this season. That's not the trend we had hoped for.
Wiggins is shooting a career low on % of attempts within 3 feet this year at 22% of his shots from that close. His previous low was 29%. He still shoots the same amount of long 2s, but his 3pt attempt % is at a career high. Wish he would keep that 3pt attempt % the same but get back to high % at the rim instead of the long 2s.
Unless his 3P efficiency improves, I'm afraid he might be better off attacking the closeout and trying to get to the rim rather than to keep shooting them at a sub-33% clip. His ability to get to the line and make 75% of them was a large pillar in helping his overall efficiency. It's no longer there.
