The Case for Towns

[Lipoli390]

Talked to a former Timberwolves player today. Said we should draft Townes and that it's not even close between him and Okafor in his mind. But he added that he's convinced the Wolves will take Okafor based on what he's heard from his contacts inside the organization.

That's where I'm at too.

Does anyone know reason they are high on Okafor?

I thought the most interesting thing Coach Cal said to Zgoda was that he things Towns is really more of a PF. I can see that actually. It would be interesting to hear Coach Cal expand on what all he meant by that.

I thought the most interesting thing Coach Cal said was the following about the Wolves front office debating whether to take Towns or Okafor: "Wow, it's a debate?" Calipari said. "It seems lilke that would be the only city there would be a debate in." That's strong language, even from Towns' college coach who likely has an understandable pro-Towns bias. Is Flips ego so huge (or so fragile) that he has to prove something by doing what no other expert would do??!!

I figure a lot of people would dismiss that as him being biased and that's fair I guess but with the talent Cal rolls though basically every year and those guys having success at the next level and he coached in the NBA I don't think when he says stuff about his players is just biased BS. So I agree that was interestingn and also a little bit funny. Flip said he has talked to Cal and so I'm sure Cal made his case to Flip for Towns. I wonder what Izzo told Flip... Lol

I can't come up with a situation where Flip for sure fed a load of BS so I'll take him at his word from last Friday that he goes back and forth. I keep wondering if there is a Wolves employee that is just absolutely smitten with Okafor and they are the source people keep hearing from

so strongly. I'm not saying Flip isn't leaning Okafor too but that's my speculation. Last year Flip's love for Lavine seemed like the worst kept secret of the draft so idk maybe he does really like Okafor and we should just assume from here on out that he will be the pick. If you are a Towns guy like most people are that's probably the smart thing to do. Sigh.

Interesting take, Monster. Actually, I don't recall Flip's love of LaVine getting out into the public domain. I recall lots of talk leading up to the draft about the Wolves taking Payne, but nothing about LaVine. I had lunch with Flip and one-on-one 10 days before last year's draft. I asked Flip who he planned to take with our pick. He answered withhout hesitation. I then asked who he'd take if the player he first mentioned wasn't available, and again without hesitation, he answered, "Zach LaVine." I recall being surprised because I hadn't heard Zach's name mention up to that time in connection with Flip or the Wolves.

I promised to keep confidential everything Flip told me that day, but I can't see any harm disclosing this tidbit now since Flip has already drafted Zach and his interest in Zach is obviously no longer a secret. Actually I think I mentioned it in a prior post a few months ago. In any event, I'm not sure how tight a lid Flip keeps on inside information, but I am sure he's a straight shooter who doesn't blow smoke. That's why I believe reports he's leaning Okafor. On the other hand, I thought he kept a tight lid on his interest in LaVine, but I could be wrong. So maybe Flip isn't really leaning Okafor's way.


I won't disclose the identity of the first player Flip mentioned because Flip may at some point want to trade for him and not want his level of interest known.

[Coolbreeze44]

I don't believe Flip has made up his mind, or would let anyone outside the organization know if he had. That's just my opinion, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over this until the pick is made.

I will say that Towns seems to be the obvious choice AT THIS POINT. But things can change, especially once the GM's start chatting about moving pieces as we get closer to draft day.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Also, since 2002 only 4 number 1 picks haven't made an all-star team and two of those are Bennett and Wiggins who I don't think should reasonably be expected to make an all-star game already in their careers (even if some don't think Bennett will ever make an all-star game). A third was Oden who was on his way to being an all-star before the injuries. History is on Flip's side that he's highly likely to end up with at least an all-star caliber player.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

If Flip takes Towns, I wonder if we shouldn't see a mea culpa from everybody who has been repeatedly lamenting that Flip is sure to take Okafor because of his ego, stupidity, or whatever.

We hate it when outside journalists pass off speculation about our organization as fact, but some of the posts on this board are flirting with doing the same thing or worse. You met a part owner, or a former Timberwolf or something (I'm torn between saying "that's cool" and "you want a cookie?" so I'll just write both). But it sounds like those guys are just speculating based on "sources" too. He said, he said, he said. It's just Chinese whispers until draft day comes and we actually find out who Flip wants.

All of us really care about this team, otherwise we wouldn't be here. But notice that it's mostly Towns supporters who are sure that Flip is picking Okafor. And it seems like the more a guy leans towards Towns, the more sure he is that Flip is picking Okafor. There are guys who legitimately want Okafor or are torn on the situation who also care about the team, but they aren't nearly as sure who Flip is picking. What does this tell us? I think part of it is anxiety. And one response to anxiety is to imagine that worst-case scenarios are more likely than they are. And the thought of screwing up (another) draft pick is scary, particularly our first #1 in history. For some of us who are sure Towns is by far the best pick, you seem to be overstating the speculation of Flip taking Okafor as a kind of worst-case scenario. Some of you have even written that you're telling yourselves that Flip is sure to take Okafor so you can better deal with the shock if it happens. That's not a very good way to rationally predict what Flip will do, but as a way to face anxiety and set yourself up with a coping mechanism, that's fine.

Whatever legitimate criticism Flip has earned over the years (and he's earned his share), it seems a little overboard to start bashing his ego and stupidity. He's not David Kahn (who actually earned those epithets). I've been part of this community since back on the ESPN board in 2001-2002. If there's one thing almost all of us have in common, it's that we all think we could run this organization better than anybody else! But that doesn't mean anybody who disagrees with us is a moron. It feels like some of these pro-Towns posts are going beyond rationally discussing who we should pick and why and really trying to lay out the starkest claim to supporting Towns so that the writer can later crow "I told you so" the loudest if Flip takes Okafor and Towns ends up being better. We all do that to some extent (I'd like to remind all you bastards of my I WANT COUSINS and I WANT LAWSON threads at this point! :) ), but don't make Flip out to be an idiot because of pure speculation that he might not agree with you.

I want Towns, but some of these pro-Towns posts are taking it a little too far. (Q's thoughtful musings are a clear exception, and an example of the kind of analysis this board needs more of). This is a big decision for us, and there's a legitimate discussion to be had over who we should pick. That's doing due diligence, and it's what we deserve as fans. Maybe that leads to Okafor, and maybe it leads to Towns. We won't know for a few weeks. In the meantime, let's all take a hit from the highpost, and enjoy the fact that the future looks bright (at least, it has to be brighter than the last decade--fingers crossed).

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Very good post Drew. I will say that my anticipation of Flip taking Okafor is both a psychological preparation for disappointment as well as a genuine belief that he will take him based on Flip's "worldview" of basketball, which seems stuck in the 1990s.

That being said, I won't despair if we pick Okafor. I fully recognize his strengths - and they are considerable. I just think Towns is the better prospect.

[Monster]

Talked to a former Timberwolves player today. Said we should draft Townes and that it's not even close between him and Okafor in his mind. But he added that he's convinced the Wolves will take Okafor based on what he's heard from his contacts inside the organization.

That's where I'm at too.

Does anyone know reason they are high on Okafor?

I thought the most interesting thing Coach Cal said to Zgoda was that he things Towns is really more of a PF. I can see that actually. It would be interesting to hear Coach Cal expand on what all he meant by that.

I thought the most interesting thing Coach Cal said was the following about the Wolves front office debating whether to take Towns or Okafor: "Wow, it's a debate?" Calipari said. "It seems lilke that would be the only city there would be a debate in." That's strong language, even from Towns' college coach who likely has an understandable pro-Towns bias. Is Flips ego so huge (or so fragile) that he has to prove something by doing what no other expert would do??!!

I figure a lot of people would dismiss that as him being biased and that's fair I guess but with the talent Cal rolls though basically every year and those guys having success at the next level and he coached in the NBA I don't think when he says stuff about his players is just biased BS. So I agree that was interestingn and also a little bit funny. Flip said he has talked to Cal and so I'm sure Cal made his case to Flip for Towns. I wonder what Izzo told Flip... Lol

I can't come up with a situation where Flip for sure fed a load of BS so I'll take him at his word from last Friday that he goes back and forth. I keep wondering if there is a Wolves employee that is just absolutely smitten with Okafor and they are the source people keep hearing from

so strongly. I'm not saying Flip isn't leaning Okafor too but that's my speculation. Last year Flip's love for Lavine seemed like the worst kept secret of the draft so idk maybe he does really like Okafor and we should just assume from here on out that he will be the pick. If you are a Towns guy like most people are that's probably the smart thing to do. Sigh.

Interesting take, Monster. Actually, I don't recall Flip's love of LaVine getting out into the public domain. I recall lots of talk leading up to the draft about the Wolves taking Payne, but nothing about LaVine. I had lunch with Flip and one-on-one 10 days before last year's draft. I asked Flip who he planned to take with our pick. He answered withhout hesitation. I then asked who he'd take if the player he first mentioned wasn't available, and again without hesitation, he answered, "Zach LaVine." I recall being surprised because I hadn't heard Zach's name mention up to that time in connection with Flip or the Wolves.

I promised to keep confidential everything Flip told me that day, but I can't see any harm disclosing this tidbit now since Flip has already drafted Zach and his interest in Zach is obviously no longer a secret. Actually I think I mentioned it in a prior post a few months ago. In any event, I'm not sure how tight a lid Flip keeps on inside information, but I am sure he's a straight shooter who doesn't blow smoke. That's why I believe reports he's leaning Okafor. On the other hand, I thought he kept a tight lid on his interest in LaVine, but I could be wrong. So maybe Flip isn't really leaning Okafor's way.


I won't disclose the identity of the first player Flip mentioned because Flip may at some point want to trade for him and not want his level of interest known.

Thanks for sharing that info and your perspective. The reason I said what about Flip picking Zach was because of following DX on Twitter and that's basically what they tweeted sometime after the pick and I thought it was accurate because they had pegged Zach there not just in their mock but more than that. However after your post I do remember not everyone had that pegged including some Wolves media (Wolfson was pretty clueless for example. Lol) so I guess it wasn't like everyone knew and I wasnt absolutely sure what was going to happen when the pick came up. I think I was still hoping for the MSU guy because I was still hoping Love would come back. Lol

[Monster]

That's a good post Drew its pretty easy to see how Wolves fans are used tonthe worst. It's been bad really bad the past few years. I agree the negativity of Okafor's weaknesses are a little out of hand also and I am as guilty as anyone but I still see some legit concerns there especially compared to Towns' strengths which is why like him with the pick. I think we should also remember that is just under 3 weeks away from the draft there seems in the past there has been a lot of movement in draft boards and all kinds of crazy stuff reported in that time so there is time for Flip to be convinced another way of he is leaning Okafor which I think is a slight leaning more than his mind is made up he is stubborn and won't change is mind. This pick is big but there is a lot more to this draft than this one pick also they have two 2nd rounders and possible opportunities to move up in the first round as well. They aren't just sitting around mostly debating who to take as the top pick there is a lot of work to do. Flip said a lot of the trade offered don't really happen till much nearer the draft so it's now time to prepare for anything that might come up. I have enough faith in Flip to think he won't absolutely blow this. Maybe that's not a ringing endorsement but he isn't stupid.

[mjs34]

What seems puzzling to me is that any leaks should be in place to give the wolves something, otherwise there is no reason not to tell the world who we are picking unless we truly are unsure. If Towns is really the no brainer pick in everyone's eyes, wouldn't it be more advantageous to leak we were leaning towards Towns so we could engage the Lakers in a possible move up.

This would also be an opportune time to search out any leaks in FO by putting out different info with different sources.

I am not 100% sold that Okafor will look as dominant against the bigger faster opposition in the NBA, his FT shooting really scares me, and I question his ability to guard the PnR. For those three reasons, I would go with Towns. I think he just has more to his game, and while I don't know Towns' mindset about Minny, I do believe Okafor isn't happy about the possibility of playing here and I think that has to figure into the process. Flip has said that it will carry some weight.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

Kentucky coach shocked Towns vs. Okafor is a debate
By Jerry Zgoda JUNE 5, 2015 -- 3:19PM

I talked with Kentucky coach John Calipari this morning about Karl-Anthony Towns and understandably, he sounds like most of Wolves Nation when it comes to the question of who's the No. 1 pick in this draft: Towns or Duke's Jahlil Okafor.

Flip Saunders and his scouting staff are debating that question, and perhaps will do so right up until near draft night.

"Wow, it's a debate?" Calipari said. "It seems lilke that would be the only city there would be a debate in."

Saunders loves Okafor's footwork and fundamentals -- so advanced at such a young age, 19 -- and at the moment appears to still favor him.

Calipari, though, backs his own guy because of what he defines as Town's versatility: A big man with a guard's shooting range, who can defend the pick-and-roll prevalent in today's NBA block shots and score both inside and outside.

And the topper, it seems, to Calipari is this:

"The greatest thing for Minnesota if they choose to pick him is, he wants to be there," he said. "You can take either guy and maybe Jahlil feels the same way, I don't know. I just know Karl Towns, if they choose to take him, wants to be there."

Calipari was referring to national speculation that Okafor -- part of it judging from a glum expression when the Wolves won the draft lottery last month -- wants to play in Los Angeles for the Lakers, who own the draft's second pick.

"Karl's the one guy who's like, `I'm fine with Minnesota, I'd like to be in Minnesota,' " Calipari said. "There's no, like, "Well, I could go to the Lakers.' That isn't who he is.That isn't his family, either. As soon as the lottery balls hit, he called me and said, `Coach, I'm good in Minnesota, I'm fine there.' "

I'll save most of the rest of what Calipari said for our draft coverage as we get closer to June 25, but he did he thinks Towns is more power forward than center in the NBA and that, just like his former big men Anthony Davis and DeMarcus Cousins, if you put the right roster of players around them, all three have the talent and drive to potential league MVPs.

"Karl's body will catch up to him and in time all three of them will have a chance," he said. "They're all that good."

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

What seems puzzling to me is that any leaks should be in place to give the wolves something, otherwise there is no reason not to tell the world who we are picking unless we truly are unsure. If Towns is really the no brainer pick in everyone's eyes, wouldn't it be more advantageous to leak we were leaning towards Towns so we could engage the Lakers in a possible move up.

This would also be an opportune time to search out any leaks in FO by putting out different info with different sources.

I am not 100% sold that Okafor will look as dominant against the bigger faster opposition in the NBA, his FT shooting really scares me, and I question his ability to guard the PnR. For those three reasons, I would go with Towns. I think he just has more to his game, and while I don't know Towns' mindset about Minny, I do believe Okafor isn't happy about the possibility of playing here and I think that has to figure into the process. Flip has said that it will carry some weight.

If people in the organization are leaking the Okafor stuff I would think it would be Towns supporters trying to get everyone on Flip's case just like this board to essentially shame him into changing his mind back to Towns. If all the media and radio are pro Towns Flip is going to have a tough time with 3 weeks of leaks saying he's the only guy on the planet thinking Okafor is the top guy. Maybe he doesn't care, but 3 weeks is a long time to be called a moron and it will be even longer if he comes out of the draft with anyone not named Towns.

Also can we stop with the whether he wants to be here or not for both guys. They'd both rather be in LA, but they'll both be fine in MN. Okafor's best friend sitting next to him at the lottery was Tyus who is from MN. I don't think Okafor will need to go on suicide watch if he ends up here. This wanting guys wanting to be here more just can't happen when the direct competitor is LA. We are the consolation prize to LA right now even when we have the higher pick.