khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
We could do that, sure, OR we could acquire Jackson and still make a run at Ibaka in free agency. The money would be there since Rubio and Muhammad cost practically the same as Jackson.
Could Ibaka decide he wanted to play elsewhere? Sure, but guess what, he could do that in your scenario too. At least if you acquire Jackson you have something in hand first.
Sounds great. Then after 1 season when Lavine and Wiggins are due to get paid what do you do? Can't have Jackson, Ibaka and Dieng at the same time with Zach and Wiggins extensions kicking in. You have to get rid of one of Jackson, Ibaka, Dieng in year 1 of those extensions and a second in year 2 of those extensions with Towns also getting an extension. So you get possibly 1 year out of Jackson or Ibaka, maybe 2. Sounds like a great plan. See the domino effect your "just sign him in the off season" has on payroll?
You act like I'm unaware of the difficulties that come with potentially having three max contract players. Come on, khans. How long have we been posting back and forth with each other? Years?
My goal would be to make this team as competitive as I can in the short-term to help the young trio come along -- maybe even get some playoff experience during that time.
If I could assemble a team with Jackson and Ibaka around Towns, LaVine, and Wiggins, that'd be pretty sweet, in my opinion. That's assuming Jackson isn't the cancer he's been made out to be, but again, I trust Thibs and his voice in the locker room.
Tell me what's different about our situation financially with Jackson here instead of Rubio. He has one more year on his contract than Rubio, and it's not like he's an untradeable piece, neither is Dieng. You do what you can to get the young trio to become an actual Big Three and if you have to in the future, you shift some parts around to adjust.
The problem is having both Ibaka and Jackson. You can't do both. Sure Jackson costs the same as Ricky and Bazz. Jackson and Ibaka don't and that's my point you seem to overlook. You get one. Do you want Jackson or Ibaka? We don't have the option to get Jackson now and Ibaka this summer and keep them around the big 3. The math doesn't work. You can keep one of them though so my deal gets Ibaka and first dibs to re-sign him with better tools to re-sign him than anyone else has. That's the point. If we trade for Ibaka and he leaves then so much for your "just sign him in the off season" pitch too. I'd rather have the money and flexibility than the roster jam requiring us to deal from a point of weakness because we backed ourselves up against the cap as your scenario does.
You seem to operate under the thinking that having Jackson instead of Rubio would change anything when in reality we'll have to make a move to free up some money regardless of who's playing point guard. And we would still have the money to sign an Ibaka this off-season. In a couple seasons, yeah, we'd have to evaluate who's needed and who's expendable. We'll have to do that anyway even without making a move this off-season. You're being irrational about this, but we can agree to disagree.
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
Weren't you calling LaVine a bad pick just a season ago?
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
There's so much wrong about that take. I didn't realize player's careers were defined by their rookie year. If you want immediate impact guy you sign a free agent, you don't draft a 22 year old and expect him to be that guy. Everyone on our team is better now than their rookie year. Why doesn't Dunn get that chance?
khans2k5 wrote:I'd rather trade up Jackson than keep him.
Det - Ricky, Bazz
ORL- Jackson
MN - Ibaka
We could do that, sure, OR we could acquire Jackson and still make a run at Ibaka in free agency. The money would be there since Rubio and Muhammad cost practically the same as Jackson.
Could Ibaka decide he wanted to play elsewhere? Sure, but guess what, he could do that in your scenario too. At least if you acquire Jackson you have something in hand first.
Sounds great. Then after 1 season when Lavine and Wiggins are due to get paid what do you do? Can't have Jackson, Ibaka and Dieng at the same time with Zach and Wiggins extensions kicking in. You have to get rid of one of Jackson, Ibaka, Dieng in year 1 of those extensions and a second in year 2 of those extensions with Towns also getting an extension. So you get possibly 1 year out of Jackson or Ibaka, maybe 2. Sounds like a great plan. See the domino effect your "just sign him in the off season" has on payroll?
You act like I'm unaware of the difficulties that come with potentially having three max contract players. Come on, khans. How long have we been posting back and forth with each other? Years?
My goal would be to make this team as competitive as I can in the short-term to help the young trio come along -- maybe even get some playoff experience during that time.
If I could assemble a team with Jackson and Ibaka around Towns, LaVine, and Wiggins, that'd be pretty sweet, in my opinion. That's assuming Jackson isn't the cancer he's been made out to be, but again, I trust Thibs and his voice in the locker room.
Tell me what's different about our situation financially with Jackson here instead of Rubio. He has one more year on his contract than Rubio, and it's not like he's an untradeable piece, neither is Dieng. You do what you can to get the young trio to become an actual Big Three and if you have to in the future, you shift some parts around to adjust.
The problem is having both Ibaka and Jackson. You can't do both. Sure Jackson costs the same as Ricky and Bazz. Jackson and Ibaka don't and that's my point you seem to overlook. You get one. Do you want Jackson or Ibaka? We don't have the option to get Jackson now and Ibaka this summer and keep them around the big 3. The math doesn't work. You can keep one of them though so my deal gets Ibaka and first dibs to re-sign him with better tools to re-sign him than anyone else has. That's the point. If we trade for Ibaka and he leaves then so much for your "just sign him in the off season" pitch too. I'd rather have the money and flexibility than the roster jam requiring us to deal from a point of weakness because we backed ourselves up against the cap as your scenario does.
You seem to operate under the thinking that having Jackson instead of Rubio would change anything when in reality we'll have to make a move to free up some money regardless of who's playing point guard. And we would still have the money to sign an Ibaka this off-season. In a couple seasons, yeah, we'd have to evaluate who's needed and who's expendable. We'll have to do that anyway even without making a move this off-season. You're being irrational about this, but we can agree to disagree.
Considering Ricky is already on the block I assumed he'd be gone creating the room for an Ibaka to be here long term and in my trade scenario he is gone opening up the needed space. You're the one being irrational thinking we can trade for Jackson and sign Ibaka this summer and keep them together with the big 3 for a long enough time to matter. 1 year or 2 if you dump Dieng. That's the real amount of time we can keep all 5. So how am I the irrational one for trying to make a deal that actually works for more than a year or 2?
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
Weren't you calling LaVine a bad pick just a season ago?
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
There's so much wrong about that take. I didn't realize player's careers were defined by their rookie year. If you want immediate impact guy you sign a free agent, you don't draft a 22 year old and expect him to be that guy. Everyone on our team is better now than their rookie year. Why doesn't Dunn get that chance?
If this team traded for a Reggie Jackson (again, that's the entire reason why I brought this up), Dunn would never get that opportunity. With that said, there's no way you can say more wasn't expected from Dunn, even to this point.
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
Weren't you calling LaVine a bad pick just a season ago?
I still don't like the pick
The only players after lavine who you could argue are any better are jokic, nukic (who dosen't play) or Clarkson and besides jokic I wouldn't take anyone else.
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
Weren't you calling LaVine a bad pick just a season ago?
I still don't like the pick
Well, you're pretty obviously wrong then. Not much more to say.
Perhaps Thibs sees what we see -- that Dunn isn't anywhere near ready to run the offense. And making Wiggins "that guy" is about development, in my opinion. I think he does want him to be a player similar to Jimmy Butler, but can any of us really blame him for that? If Butler had Wiggins natural ability... oh man. The problem is that Wiggins doesn't have Butler's drive, motor, and background, but that's a different conversation.
Dunn is probably two or three years away from being a regular starter, if he even turns out to be one. It's smart of Thibs to be looking for upgrades now while thinking about the future, in my opinion. You can only hope that Dunn becomes a good player, but it's not even a guarantee that he gets to Rubio or Jackson's level, thus the trade rumors.
If he's that far away from being a starter, then it was a bad pick since he was supposed siteouts
There's so much wrong about that take. I didn't realize player's careers were defined by their rookie year. If you want immediate impact guy you sign a free agent, you don't draft a 22 year old and expect him to be that guy. Everyone on our team is better now than their rookie year. Why doesn't Dunn get that chance?
If this team traded for a Reggie Jackson (again, that's the entire reason why I brought this up), Dunn would never get that opportunity. With that said, there's no way you can say more wasn't expected from Dunn, even to this point.
Jimmy butler started a grand total of 20 games his first 2 years, averaged 5 pts per game and averages 17 minutes a game. He turned out fine. Dunn like butler was asked to play defense, they were the same age and he turned out fine. The whole draft class has been bad I can make an argument he has been the best rookie in the class this year
With the way Zach's shooting stats are trending then there is not a single player drafted after him that I would rather have. In fact, Zach may turn out to be one of the steals of that draft, if he isnt already regarded as one.
