Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:One note on McHale...

He was a mixed bag. We all know that. But we also all know (KNEW) that Garnett needed one type of player next to him... the unabashed end of game closer.

He and Marbury were so highly regarded as a young duo because of how they complemented each other. And the only other ball swagging PG with him... Cassell... was HUGE in getting the Wolves to the WCF. It's not surprise that the Wolves lost when Cassell got hurt.

That's not saying Cassell was better. Not at all. Only that Garnett had a fatal flaw and everybody sans McHale seemed to know what it was.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Abe -- McHale clearly knew KG's weakness. That's why he swapped Allen for Marbury. And that's why he went out and got Sam Cassell. You only get so many opportunities to bring in the sort of high level closer KG needed to make this team a title contender. At the time Marbury was trade (at Marbury's insistence) the Wolves were leading the Western Conference. And as you hinted, if Sam hadn't gone down it's likely the Wolves would have gotten to the NBA finals in 2004 and won the title against a Pistons team the Wolves handled during the regular season. The KG contract and idiotic violation of League rules in the Joe Smith deal made the difficult task of landing a closer even more difficult. McHale obviously knew he needed one or he wouldn't have gone after Marbury and Cassell.

1. He got Marbury after Garnett's rookie season. I don't know if 1/2 season of 19-year-old Garnett starting was enough for him to actually know what Garnett's fatal flaw was.
2. It was several years later before Cassell was brought aboard... and rumors of a Payton or Iverson trade always lingered after that but never materialized.

I wouldn't say those two additions show us that McHale actively sought a big balls dancing playmaker to balance out Garnett during his 12-year tenure with the team.

I'm not sure who McHale could have reasonably looked to bring in that was that type of guy considering he rarely had assets to give up and of course had little to no draft assets. I guess he could have gotten Cassell earlier when he dealt Marbury. I would have been ok with that I liked Cassell and my friend that told me of the trade told me that it was Cassell actually*. At the time Brandon was likely considered a better player. He was really considered one of the best all around PGs. Unfortunately he wasn't a big shot guy although it looked like he was more willing to step up in bigger moments the last year he was in the playoffs but with his injuries we never found out more. It's really sort of too bad Brandon ended up as basically a bad joke to fans. He seemed to be a god guy and a good player. That's life though.

*I remember learning of the Marbury trade because a friend called me and I answered on my dorm room phone. It had a cord and you had to push buttons to use it. I had been laying on the floor in a fetal position in pain from what turned out to be a nasty sinus infection. After he told me of the trade and I made some quick comment about the deal I said "Hey man wanna take me to the emergency room?" He immediately agreed to take me and he is a good friend still to this day.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:One note on McHale...

He was a mixed bag. We all know that. But we also all know (KNEW) that Garnett needed one type of player next to him... the unabashed end of game closer.

He and Marbury were so highly regarded as a young duo because of how they complemented each other. And the only other ball swagging PG with him... Cassell... was HUGE in getting the Wolves to the WCF. It's not surprise that the Wolves lost when Cassell got hurt.

That's not saying Cassell was better. Not at all. Only that Garnett had a fatal flaw and everybody sans McHale seemed to know what it was.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Abe -- McHale clearly knew KG's weakness. That's why he swapped Allen for Marbury. And that's why he went out and got Sam Cassell. You only get so many opportunities to bring in the sort of high level closer KG needed to make this team a title contender. At the time Marbury was trade (at Marbury's insistence) the Wolves were leading the Western Conference. And as you hinted, if Sam hadn't gone down it's likely the Wolves would have gotten to the NBA finals in 2004 and won the title against a Pistons team the Wolves handled during the regular season. The KG contract and idiotic violation of League rules in the Joe Smith deal made the difficult task of landing a closer even more difficult. McHale obviously knew he needed one or he wouldn't have gone after Marbury and Cassell.

1. He got Marbury after Garnett's rookie season. I don't know if 1/2 season of 19-year-old Garnett starting was enough for him to actually know what Garnett's fatal flaw was.
2. It was several years later before Cassell was brought aboard... and rumors of a Payton or Iverson trade always lingered after that but never materialized.

I wouldn't say those two additions show us that McHale actively sought a big balls dancing playmaker to balance out Garnett during his 12-year tenure with the team.

McHale drafted a big-time fearless scorer in Wally Z. And he tried to acquire Iverson. McHale made a lot of mistakes, but he wasn't shy about taking risks and he certainly knew KG wasn't a go-to scorer at the end of games. He drafted Marbury, acquired Cassell, drafted Wally Z, signed Anthony Peeler, and tried to acquire Allen Iverson. I wouldn't equate McHale's failure to get enough talent around KG for a championship with McHale not knowing the blatantly obvious fact that KG wasn't a go-to late game scorer. He actually did succeed with Cassell and Sprewell, but Sam danced the team out of what would have likely been a trip to the finals. Alas, so close but yet so far.

More important is whether we have a reliable go-to fearless late game scorer on our current roster. I think we have two -- LaVine and Towns. We might have a third in Wiggins as well.

The past is behind us. How's that for profound? For me, I enjoyed most of the McHale era. And for all his mistakes, he understood basketball, including the strengths and weaknesses of players. Unfortunately, he was not the hardest worker. It's the Kahn era that I find painful. Now Kahn is clearly a guy who can be labeled clueless. Signing Darko to a multi-year guaranteed contract when he was about to head back to Europe because absolutely no other NBA team had any interest in signing him. Signing Brandon Roy when the rest of the world knew he was physically done and desperately giving up a 1st round pick to entice the Suns into taking Wes Johnson's salary to make soon for Roy. Getting snookered by Batum's agent and the Blazers' organization. The list goes on.

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:One note on McHale...

He was a mixed bag. We all know that. But we also all know (KNEW) that Garnett needed one type of player next to him... the unabashed end of game closer.

He and Marbury were so highly regarded as a young duo because of how they complemented each other. And the only other ball swagging PG with him... Cassell... was HUGE in getting the Wolves to the WCF. It's not surprise that the Wolves lost when Cassell got hurt.

That's not saying Cassell was better. Not at all. Only that Garnett had a fatal flaw and everybody sans McHale seemed to know what it was.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Abe -- McHale clearly knew KG's weakness. That's why he swapped Allen for Marbury. And that's why he went out and got Sam Cassell. You only get so many opportunities to bring in the sort of high level closer KG needed to make this team a title contender. At the time Marbury was trade (at Marbury's insistence) the Wolves were leading the Western Conference. And as you hinted, if Sam hadn't gone down it's likely the Wolves would have gotten to the NBA finals in 2004 and won the title against a Pistons team the Wolves handled during the regular season. The KG contract and idiotic violation of League rules in the Joe Smith deal made the difficult task of landing a closer even more difficult. McHale obviously knew he needed one or he wouldn't have gone after Marbury and Cassell.

1. He got Marbury after Garnett's rookie season. I don't know if 1/2 season of 19-year-old Garnett starting was enough for him to actually know what Garnett's fatal flaw was.
2. It was several years later before Cassell was brought aboard... and rumors of a Payton or Iverson trade always lingered after that but never materialized.

I wouldn't say those two additions show us that McHale actively sought a big balls dancing playmaker to balance out Garnett during his 12-year tenure with the team.

McHale drafted a big-time fearless scorer in Wally Z. And he tried to acquire Iverson. McHale made a lot of mistakes, but he wasn't shy about taking risks and he certainly knew KG wasn't a go-to scorer at the end of games. He drafted Marbury, acquired Cassell, drafted Wally Z, signed Anthony Peeler, and tried to acquire Allen Iverson. I wouldn't equate McHale's failure to get enough talent around KG for a championship with McHale not knowing the blatantly obvious fact that KG wasn't a go-to late game scorer. He actually did succeed with Cassell and Sprewell, but Sam danced the team out of what would have likely been a trip to the finals. Alas, so close but yet so far.

More important is whether we have a reliable go-to fearless late game scorer on our current roster. I think we have two -- LaVine and Towns. We might have a third in Wiggins as well.

The past is behind us. How's that for profound? For me, I enjoyed most of the McHale era. And for all his mistakes, he understood basketball, including the strengths and weaknesses of players. Unfortunately, he was not the hardest worker. It's the Kahn era that I find painful. Now Kahn is clearly a guy who can be labeled clueless. Signing Darko to a multi-year guaranteed contract when he was about to head back to Europe because absolutely no other NBA team had any interest in signing him. Signing Brandon Roy when the rest of the world knew he was physically done and desperately giving up a 1st round pick to entice the Suns into taking Wes Johnson's salary to make soon for Roy. Getting snookered by Batum's agent and the Blazers' organization. The list goes on.

A few quibbles:

I wouldn't label McHale clueless either. Overall, I liked him. Or at least, I really wanted to like him. He's a likeable guy and knows hoops. He made good moves and bad moves. I just think finding only two of the right kind of 2nd fiddles when it was seemingly so obvious was on the negative ledger.

We have very different opinions about Wally Z. He was a fine player. A pretty solid and efficient scorer. But he doesn't fit the bill. You're not able to give the ball to Szczerbiak at the end of the game and tell him to go create something. There's a reason why his scoring or efficiency went down every season in the playoffs.

Anthony Peeler definitely doesn't fit the bill. The guy never averaged more than 14 ppg at any point in his career.

It's fine to dismiss the past. I was just trying to join a conversation about McHale's past moves. It's not like I started this discussion angle...