Minnesota Sports Forum

It's so imperative that Finch and the front office figure out what the hell they have in these young guys, including whoever we draft this year. I mean, if Leonard Miller is really someone with a legit NBA future, it makes eventually trading KAT or Naz a lot easier. Same thing if Clark becomes a 3&D gem. Then we can let NAW go in free agency after next season and pay less for a similar player in Clark. And if they end up sucking? Well, then we know to cut them loose sooner rather than later.

This is why it's so important to get a couple of these guys in our rotation this season, even if it's just for 5-10 minutes per game.

The last few years I've been adamant that the only players that should play are the ones that earn their time. Turning around a losing culture was priority #1 and I was 100% on board with Finch's approach last season. But now that we've been baptized as legit contenders and have the salary tsunami about to crash down on us, I'm for a different approach...at least in the first half of the season.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:55 am I think Monster and Q addressed your second reason pretty thoroughly. I’ll boil it down to this. Our young guys (Miller, Minott, Moore) just weren’t good enough to crack the rotation of a team competing for a championship. I’m not sure any of them, except maybe Minott, would have gotten any time on a lottery-bound team. Moore is a bust, but I still have hope for Minott and Miller. Also, as Q and Monster pointed out, none of our young guys provide what we need most positionally (backup PG) or skill-wise (perimeter shooting).

I keep reading that the reason our young guys didn't play was because they suck so bad. But Garza, Miller and Minott are the three top PERs from last season. Yes, it doesn't mean much because it's small sample of garbage minutes. But it's all we have and the results looked fine. So why are people coming to the conclusion they are terrible?

I'm not saying those guys earned regular rotation minutes. I agree with what Q and Monster stated - we had a deep established roster. But Towns missed 20 games. McDaniels missed 10. Give one of those guys 5 or 6 meaningful minutes with other regulars. Even if they are as horrible as some of you think they are...it's not going to sink the ship for short stints.

All those guys can do is play well when given a chance. Their (garbage time) stats look pretty decent. I just want to give the younger guys some opportunity here and there. It just really seemed like Finch would have needed a gun pointed at his head to put any of those guys in. Garza certainly looks ready for more minutes IMO. I think Minott would have been just as good (bad) as TJ Warren. Get them in there Finchy!

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:00 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:55 am I think Monster and Q addressed your second reason pretty thoroughly. I’ll boil it down to this. Our young guys (Miller, Minott, Moore) just weren’t good enough to crack the rotation of a team competing for a championship. I’m not sure any of them, except maybe Minott, would have gotten any time on a lottery-bound team. Moore is a bust, but I still have hope for Minott and Miller. Also, as Q and Monster pointed out, none of our young guys provide what we need most positionally (backup PG) or skill-wise (perimeter shooting).

I keep reading that the reason our young guys didn't play was because they suck so bad. But Garza, Miller and Minott are the three top PERs from last season. Yes, it doesn't mean much because it's small sample of garbage minutes. But it's all we have and the results looked fine. So why are people coming to the conclusion they are terrible?

I'm not saying those guys earned regular rotation minutes. I agree with what Q and Monster stated - we had a deep established roster. But Towns missed 20 games. McDaniels missed 10. Give one of those guys 5 or 6 meaningful minutes with other regulars. Even if they are as horrible as some of you think they are...it's not going to sink the ship for short stints.

All those guys can do is play well when given a chance. Their (garbage time) stats look pretty decent. I just want to give the younger guys some opportunity here and there. It just really seemed like Finch would have needed a gun pointed at his head to put any of those guys in. Garza certainly looks ready for more minutes IMO. I think Minott would have been just as good (bad) as TJ Warren. Get them in there Finchy!

Before Kats injury we were one of the healthiest teams in the league. Conley played more games than he had in over a decade. The young guys usually get their minutes on good teams in garbage time and will get a break when someone gets injured. I thought Garza was the only player that ever looked good in garbage time, we always lost those minutes early in the season as they struggled to keep other teams 3rd stringers under 100 points. I thought Garza should have played more minutes once Kat got hurt and he did against Denver and Indiana. We got torched in garbage time against Podziemski in Golden State when he scored 8pts in a minute almost leading Golden State back into the game after they pulled all their starters. Two days later Klay and Green got ejected right at the start of the game against us choking Rudy and Podziemski gets 39 minutes in that game and torches us for 23 points as we struggled to beat Golden State by 3. This put Podziemski on the map for Golden State and get started getting regular minutes after that. We never had that moment with our garbage time players, and none of them outside of Luka scored many points. This coming season we can't bank on Conley playing 76 games and need players to step up, especially if Anderson leaves in free agency.

I'll add that while obviously Nix wasn't amazing or anything he is a guy that had played plenty of NBA basketball and he didn't get any run either and I think he is likely at least average defensively at a couple positions and can play as a PG. Finch played the vet guys a lot and I think some of that was intentional possibly having to do with having a mindset of playing to the end etc. I think Finch also really wanted to get as high of a seed as possible.

I think Minott was a guy that could have given them some limited minutes as an energy guy but as Q pointed out he didn't have the right skills. Earlier on in the season when there was more opportunities Brown Jr was here and played well. After that Kyle Anderson was basically healthy and there wasn't minutes at PF because the Wolves have plenty of options there too even with Towns injury.

Maybe this season with every settling into their roles the Wolves will be more willing to sprinkle some young guys in than in the past. Keep in mind the previous season the Wolves were still trying to figure things out with adding Gobert. This season they got most things worked out (offense still needs some work) so maybe year 3 we will see Finch back off playing guys as many minutes and give some guys that actually deserve minutes a shot. That could even be a guy they sign as a 2-way player like they have with Garza and McLaughlin in the past that weren't even draft picks. They need some contributions from the end of their roster. Especially since it seems u likely to me they keep all 3 of Morris McLaughlin and Anderson just because all those guys have some influence on the other's opportunities. If the Wolves bring back Anderson and have another guard type that can actually play...that could reduce a backup PG role even further. I don't know what the market will be for either Morris or McLaughlin.

rapsuperstar31 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:24 am Before Kats injury we were one of the healthiest teams in the league. Conley played more games than he had in over a decade. The young guys usually get their minutes on good teams in garbage time and will get a break when someone gets injured. I thought Garza was the only player that ever looked good in garbage time, we always lost those minutes early in the season as they struggled to keep other teams 3rd stringers under 100 points. I thought Garza should have played more minutes once Kat got hurt and he did against Denver and Indiana. We got torched in garbage time against Podziemski in Golden State when he scored 8pts in a minute almost leading Golden State back into the game after they pulled all their starters. Two days later Klay and Green got ejected right at the start of the game against us choking Rudy and Podziemski gets 39 minutes in that game and torches us for 23 points as we struggled to beat Golden State by 3. This put Podziemski on the map for Golden State and get started getting regular minutes after that. We never had that moment with our garbage time players, and none of them outside of Luka scored many points. This coming season we can't bank on Conley playing 76 games and need players to step up, especially if Anderson leaves in free agency.

We are in agreement on Garza. But I think Minott gets overlooked a lot on here. Again - big asterisk because it's almost all garbage time. But here are his two year career advanced stats using the main metrics I use to measure players (these are my stats - everyone else can chime in with theirs):

187 minutes played
19.1 PER. Just for context, Town's PER has been 18.8 the last two years. And no - I'm not saying Minott is greater than Towns - I realize Minott's totals are small samples of garbage minutes. I'm just pointing out he's doing ok when given a chance.
12.6 TRP%. Again, just for context, NAZ had a TRP of 12.2 last year.
And my go to favorite stat...Minot has a career 0.2 VORP. It's not much, but it's only 187 minutes and he's earned a positive.

Minott's done fine when given a chance. I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Again, I only bring this up because I'm wondering what the thought process is for this draft. Like Q, I thought the G League was going to be awesome for development. But I didn't see much of that from last year. Iowa was so bad, it probably was the opposite of development for our young guys.

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:00 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:55 am I think Monster and Q addressed your second reason pretty thoroughly. I’ll boil it down to this. Our young guys (Miller, Minott, Moore) just weren’t good enough to crack the rotation of a team competing for a championship. I’m not sure any of them, except maybe Minott, would have gotten any time on a lottery-bound team. Moore is a bust, but I still have hope for Minott and Miller. Also, as Q and Monster pointed out, none of our young guys provide what we need most positionally (backup PG) or skill-wise (perimeter shooting).

I keep reading that the reason our young guys didn't play was because they suck so bad. But Garza, Miller and Minott are the three top PERs from last season. Yes, it doesn't mean much because it's small sample of garbage minutes. But it's all we have and the results looked fine. So why are people coming to the conclusion they are terrible?

Well, there was the G-League where all three of those guys got meaningful minutes in the course of competitive games. We've talked ad nauseum about how horrible Miller looked defensively down there. Not sure why garbage time minutes would trump a much larger body of work in the G-League. Minott wasn't impressive down there either. Garza for sure dominated and has outgrown the G-League but we already have a bench scoring big in Naz Reid who can play PF whereas Garza can only realistically play backup C and has obvious defensive limitations.

I will concede that Finch could have done a little more "sprinkling" of minutes outside of garbage time to a couple of these guys last year, even if for just very short stints every other game or so. But overall I supported his approach.

This next season needs to be different though....

I would love to see Garza play defense like the current 2x league MVP plays. Just enough to allow your offense to win. Wouldn't that be enough from a backup C making a pitance compared to the MILLIONS being paid to KAT and Rudy?

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 10:43 am

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:00 am

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:55 am I think Monster and Q addressed your second reason pretty thoroughly. I’ll boil it down to this. Our young guys (Miller, Minott, Moore) just weren’t good enough to crack the rotation of a team competing for a championship. I’m not sure any of them, except maybe Minott, would have gotten any time on a lottery-bound team. Moore is a bust, but I still have hope for Minott and Miller. Also, as Q and Monster pointed out, none of our young guys provide what we need most positionally (backup PG) or skill-wise (perimeter shooting).

I keep reading that the reason our young guys didn't play was because they suck so bad. But Garza, Miller and Minott are the three top PERs from last season. Yes, it doesn't mean much because it's small sample of garbage minutes. But it's all we have and the results looked fine. So why are people coming to the conclusion they are terrible?

Well, there was the G-League where all three of those guys got meaningful minutes in the course of competitive games. We've talked ad nauseum about how horrible Miller looked defensively down there. Not sure why garbage time minutes would trump a much larger body of work in the G-League. Minott wasn't impressive down there either. Garza for sure dominated and has outgrown the G-League but we already have a bench scoring big in Naz Reid who can play PF whereas Garza can only realistically play backup C and has obvious defensive limitations.

I will concede that Finch could have done a little more "sprinkling" of minutes outside of garbage time to a couple of these guys last year, even if for just very short stints every other game or so. But overall I supported his approach.

This next season needs to be different though....

I will add that the hundreds of minutes Finchie sees these guys in practice probably holds more sway than both their garbage minutes and their G League minutes. I suspect he's looking at the M boys and saying privately to his coaches "I can't play these guys". Similarly, since I'm one of many here who clamor for more JMac minutes, I suspect that Finchie might be seeing him missing open threes in practice...and that plus his poor shooting in previous seasons trumps his excellent 3-point shooting last season.

We've got Finchie for several more years now that he's signed his extension, so I have to believe in what he's seeing...even if it's different that what I want.

Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

Counter-point...Getting a couple of young guys in the rotation could save some legs come playoff time, so even if they don't play a lick in the playoffs, they may be important to ensuring a successful regular season, which includes winning enough games to stay out of the play-in - and ideally a top 4 seed - while at the same time keeping the minutes of our starters in check. It wasn't just Ant that ran out of gas or was hobbled.

My second counterpoint is that their development (or lack thereof) is pretty consequential as it relates to the moves the front office could make at the trade deadline and into next offseason.