Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)

[Lipoli390]

In a sense Casey was a victim of his success. I've never thought much of Toronto's roster. So in my view, Casey got that team to overachieve this season, winning 59 games with a decent but not great roster. The playoffs, however, are a different story. You can coach a team to overachieve over the course of an 82 game season, but talent usually wins out in the playoffs where every team is loaded with talent, each player super-motivated and the best players at their best. Casey raised expectations by getting his team to overachieve during the season and ultimately fell victim to those expectations when his team hit the playoff wall.

What happened to Toronto in the playoffs makes what Brad Stevens is doing in Boston all the more amazing.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

They couldn't win a game against the Cavs because the Cavs just own them. The coach has to have his guys in the mindset to take a game or even two and you could tell all series long Lebron just did what he wanted and Toronto had no fight in them. As great of a coach as he is, the number 1 seed in the East couldn't win a single game in the second round of the playoffs. The Cavs just aren't that good to overlook a flop like that and this was the Raptors best all around team they've had. We even took a game off the Rockets as a 1v8 and that was a 1v4 matchup. He's a good coach, but that should be unacceptable for any #1 seed to get swept out of the playoffs if there isn't significant injuries to the roster. If you can't do much with the roster you have to change the motivator to try to get more out of them when it really matters.

[worldK]

Casey benching derozan in game 3 help sealed his fate in my opinion. Derozan had a bad series but he is still the best player of the team and that benching furthur embarassed him. That relationship got damaged there and im sure derozan gave the okay sign to fire him.

[Monster]

In a sense Casey was a victim of his success. I've never thought much of Toronto's roster. So in my view, Casey got that team to overachieve this season, winning 59 games with a decent but not great roster. The playoffs, however, are a different story. You can coach a team to overachieve over the course of an 82 game season, but talent usually wins out in the playoffs where every team is loaded with talent, each player super-motivated and the best players at their best. Casey raised expectations by getting his team to overachieve during the season and ultimately fell victim to those expectations when his team hit the playoff wall.

What happened to Toronto in the playoffs makes what Brad Stevens is doing in Boston all the more amazing.

I like your point about him being a victim of his own success. At times it gets overstated but there are times that the idea of some coaches aren't as good when it comes to playoffs has some legitimacy. I didn't analyze this series enough but some folks out there had some criticism of Casey for moves that he made in game and rotations etc that didn't make sense. It reminds me a bit of Scott Brooks. Good coach but has been outcoached in the playoffs a few times.

[Lipoli390]

In a sense Casey was a victim of his success. I've never thought much of Toronto's roster. So in my view, Casey got that team to overachieve this season, winning 59 games with a decent but not great roster. The playoffs, however, are a different story. You can coach a team to overachieve over the course of an 82 game season, but talent usually wins out in the playoffs where every team is loaded with talent, each player super-motivated and the best players at their best. Casey raised expectations by getting his team to overachieve during the season and ultimately fell victim to those expectations when his team hit the playoff wall.

What happened to Toronto in the playoffs makes what Brad Stevens is doing in Boston all the more amazing.

I like your point about him being a victim of his own success. At times it gets overstated but there are times that the idea of some coaches aren't as good when it comes to playoffs has some legitimacy. I didn't analyze this series enough but some folks out there had some criticism of Casey for moves that he made in game and rotations etc that didn't make sense. It reminds me a bit of Scott Brooks. Good coach but has been outcoached in the playoffs a few times.

I haven't really looked in to the particulars of how Casey coached in the Cavs series. But I've heard some of the same things you've heard and those criticisms sound legitimate to me. I thought benching DeRozan was a bad move, regardless of how he's playing in that specific game. So much of this game is confidence. You really need a swagger to win in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. Benching one of the team's top two players in a playoff series can such the confidence out of a team and leave them without the swagger to win. That might be part of what happened in addition to some of the issues with rotations. But I do think the Raptors overachieved at 59 wins with that roster. Expectations were high and the Raptors fell miserably short of those expectations. I don't fault the Raptors for firing Casey, but I can see the case for not firing him. I don't think Casey was the best coach in the NBA this season -- not by a long shot. That recognition should have gone to Brad Stevens. I'd also put Pop and Brown ahead of Casey.

[Monster]

In a sense Casey was a victim of his success. I've never thought much of Toronto's roster. So in my view, Casey got that team to overachieve this season, winning 59 games with a decent but not great roster. The playoffs, however, are a different story. You can coach a team to overachieve over the course of an 82 game season, but talent usually wins out in the playoffs where every team is loaded with talent, each player super-motivated and the best players at their best. Casey raised expectations by getting his team to overachieve during the season and ultimately fell victim to those expectations when his team hit the playoff wall.

What happened to Toronto in the playoffs makes what Brad Stevens is doing in Boston all the more amazing.

I like your point about him being a victim of his own success. At times it gets overstated but there are times that the idea of some coaches aren't as good when it comes to playoffs has some legitimacy. I didn't analyze this series enough but some folks out there had some criticism of Casey for moves that he made in game and rotations etc that didn't make sense. It reminds me a bit of Scott Brooks. Good coach but has been outcoached in the playoffs a few times.

I haven't really looked in to the particulars of how Casey coached in the Cavs series. But I've heard some of the same things you've heard and those criticisms sound legitimate to me. I thought benching DeRozan was a bad move, regardless of how he's playing in that specific game. So much of this game is confidence. You really need a swagger to win in the NBA, especially in the playoffs. Benching one of the team's top two players in a playoff series can such the confidence out of a team and leave them without the swagger to win. That might be part of what happened in addition to some of the issues with rotations. But I do think the Raptors overachieved at 59 wins with that roster. Expectations were high and the Raptors fell miserably short of those expectations. I don't fault the Raptors for firing Casey, but I can see the case for not firing him. I don't think Casey was the best coach in the NBA this season -- not by a long shot. That recognition should have gone to Brad Stevens. I'd also put Pop and Brown ahead of Casey.

Like Casey being fired I can see both sides of the Derozan benching. On one hand you have a guy that his value is scoring the ball thats 3-12 in the game and they are down and could use some 3's which isn't his thing either. The Cavs were playing small. Van Vliet has a positive +-for the game I believe and at the time it was really good. How many times have people said a coach doesn't have the balls to bench one of their best players? Then when they do it...it's a bad thing? Idk. Ujiri seems like a guy that by himself he could have smoothed that over if it was a problem.

Coaches that IMO deserved COY and could have easily won it in my mind and I would not have been upset.

Pop
Stevens
Snyder
Casey

I hadn't thought of Brown but yeah he probably is deserving also. Heck MCMillen winning I would probably have been ok with that. It might be easier to come up with a list of guys that I would not vote for. Lol

The bottom line is that Casey is a good coach. Is he great? No probably not. I'll Say this he has a pretty good resume and he was the head coach when a number of young players developed also. Derozan and Lowry became stars while he was there. I'd guess they promote someone from within unless Budenholzer blows them away. It will be interesting to see what happens. There will be teams that would gladly take Casey and hope he could replicate what he did with Toronto. Of course he won't have Ujiri as his GM which is pretty significant IMHO.

Also it's worth mentioning that Casey was the coaches choice for COY. It will be interesting who wins the other award. George Karl got fired by the Nuggets in 2013 after winning COY. They haven't had a better coach since and I think we both like Mike Malone.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Boston is Amazing, vol. MCXIV

Boston is amazing... for nothing else than how they've convinced everybody to buy in.

What's the difference between the Timberwolves and the Celtics? Look to the little things.

- The switching/pointing/communication on defense is awesome. Guys are in the place they need to be. It ends up being the difference between an "open" look and one where the guy is one step closer to the shooter. The slight percentage difference adds up over a full game more than we might think.
- The hustle. Al Horford and Co. SPRINT downcourt after a made hoop. It might not lead to a hoop. But it does lead to Cleveland exerting energy to keep up and mismatches on that end that can be exploited.
- The hustle on defense. They SPRINT back to be in position on defense before the opposition can exploit similar mismatches. For example, even as the big man, Baynes ONLY purpose after a Celtics missed shot is to get back to the free throw line with arms outstretched as a deterrent for any quick action by Cle/Phi/Mil...

Boring stuff, huh? It matters. A lot... when you're talking about 70, 80, 100 possessions in an NBA game. The slightly better odds of good things happen tilt in your favor.

Don't know how you convince millionaires that got rich doing it their own way that it matters... but that's part of why Stevens gets all the good pub, I guess.

[Monster]

Boston is Amazing, vol. MCXIV

Boston is amazing... for nothing else than how they've convinced everybody to buy in.

What's the difference between the Timberwolves and the Celtics? Look to the little things.

- The switching/pointing/communication on defense is awesome. Guys are in the place they need to be. It ends up being the difference between an "open" look and one where the guy is one step closer to the shooter. The slight percentage difference adds up over a full game more than we might think.
- The hustle. Al Horford and Co. SPRINT downcourt after a made hoop. It might not lead to a hoop. But it does lead to Cleveland exerting energy to keep up and mismatches on that end that can be exploited.
- The hustle on defense. They SPRINT back to be in position on defense before the opposition can exploit similar mismatches. For example, even as the big man, Baynes ONLY purpose after a Celtics missed shot is to get back to the free throw line with arms outstretched as a deterrent for any quick action by Cle/Phi/Mil...

Boring stuff, huh? It matters. A lot... when you're talking about 70, 80, 100 possessions in an NBA game. The slightly better odds of good things happen tilt in your favor.

Don't know how you convince millionaires that got rich doing it their own way that it matters... but that's part of why Stevens gets all the good pub, I guess.

I looked at the score yesterday and turned on the game when it was 25-8 Boston and texted my friend "Boston in 4 LOL". I'm not taking away anything from Stevens because clearly he has a positive impact but you also have ot wonder about if some of those guys are that effort player from the beginning. Baynes has always seemed like a guy that plays hard but he did play for the Spurs. Horford has always struck me as a winning basketball player thats why I wanted him very badly in that draft. Smart is a beast the guy posts up anyone and can actually score on them. It's literally insane. There are more but yeah. How many Wolves players fit this category the past 5 years? How many of them played more than like a season and a half ot basketball for this team consecutively. IF feels like Boston has had a few of those guys for a while.

Here is another name. Kelly Olynyk. He went from Boston's awesome system to Miami and was even better...on both sides of the ball.

Anyway back to the Celtics its just amazing what they are able to do even if they the young guys are top whatever draft picks. They have guys that play with an edge and they play smart. Cleveland better be ready because this team is going to be a tough out. Their ability to switch everything and actually execute as Abe said is gonna give teams problems.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Yeah, makes me jealous watching how Tatum, Brown, and Rozier are three of the four major catalysts (with Horford being the other) of a contending team. Unbelievable. How many lottery picks do we burn through before finding even one guy that is as good as any of these three? Meanwhile they draft three players over the course of three drafts and hit pay dirt on every single one of them. And two are wings for God's sake, which are supposed to be the hardest thing on the planet to find!

Now, how much of this is Stevens' coaching magic and putting them in a position to be successful and how much of it is through Ainge's ability to spot NBA talent? Probably some combination of both, but it's amazing how much each of these three have improved since their rookie year (or in Tatum's case, throughout his rookie year since he's still a freakin' rookie!!!).

[thedoper]

If Curry is playing I'll be shocked if this Houston series goes more than 5. Unless there are some crazy games where the Rockets have a 30-10 free throw margin. The NBA is so good at their marketing. Golden State seems to have a clear path to another championship but somehow every game there is a new narrative on the season.