Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Let's look at this trade through a different lens.

Can you imagine what people would be saying about Dallas if they had Gobert and Towns with Luka? Wowzers.

The Wolves did deal away some worthwhile/good players but the cupboard is not bare. Some people don't like Russell but he is a good player a starting PG that now may fit well. Nowell now has a shot at being a terrific 6th man. Anderson is a versatile player who has contributed to winning teams. McDaniels is not proven (neither is Nowell) but even if he doesn't take a massive step he is still probably a pretty good role player. Naz is a worthwhile backup. Prince is a good player.

The Wolves are banking on some guys stepping forward including McLaughlin but if some of them do this could be a really good team and I think there will be some good vibes from the players especially since some players now will have an actual role instead of waiting their turn. What if a guy like Moore is actually able to contribute earlier rather than later if needed?

TheFuture wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Let's look at this trade through a different lens.

Can you imagine what people would be saying about Dallas if they had Gobert and Towns with Luka? Wowzers.

The Wolves did deal away some worthwhile/good players but the cupboard is not bare. Some people don't like Russell but he is a good player a starting PG that now may fit well. Nowell now has a shot at being a terrific 6th man. Anderson is a versatile player who has contributed to winning teams. McDaniels is not proven (neither is Nowell) but even if he doesn't take a massive step he is still probably a pretty good role player. Naz is a worthwhile backup. Prince is a good player.

The Wolves are banking on some guys stepping forward including McLaughlin but if some of them do this could be a really good team and I think there will be some good vibes from the players especially since some players now will have an actual role instead of waiting their turn. What if a guy like Moore is actually able to contribute earlier rather than later if needed?

The only point is that Gobert is not worth what was dealt.

Camden wrote:Having seen what Minnesota traded for Rudy Gobert, I have to wonder what Kevin Durant will bring back for Brooklyn. We're probably talking about a young, proven star plus a boatload of unprotected future first-round picks and swaps in addition to a role player. That deal will likely make our heads explode.

monsterpile wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Let's try to direct this discussion toward Rudy in the playoffs, since that's been the point of criticism against him in the last couple years, and since at this point, we all have to expect we should be competitive in the playoffs now.

Defense
Toward that end, here's a video breakdown by Ben Taylor, AKA "Thinking Basketball." If you don't know his stuff, check out his YouTube page. The guy is smart as hell. Even the comments that people write under his videos are pretty informative! So here's the video breakdown regarding the defensive end specifically, prompted mostly by Utah's loss to Dallas in this past postseason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDTrUdGRUvA

Overall, it does look like Rudy's defense statistically does take a step back in the playoffs, but maybe not as much as some critics have claimed. I think maybe the most constructive information is that in order for him to stay effective on the floor when teams go small and stretch the floor, our perimeter defenders can't be turnstiles. That seems obvious, but it's really apparent how bad the Utah perimeter defenders were in this video. Toward that end, Jaden's continued development and Ant's ability to really step up his perimeter defense will be crucial for us to mitigate defensive problems that opponents could give us by going "5 out" in the playoffs. And Kyle Anderson is a sneaky-good perimeter defender, actually.

So what do you guys think about building a better defense against teams when they do that against us in the playoffs? In part, I wonder whether concerns about this with Rudy have been overblown in part because the Clippers and Dallas were perfectly poised to do this to Utah. I'd add that Denver can do that really well too. Memphis could do it with JJJ as a big shooter. Golden State might actually have some problems since Draymond doesn't really shoot 3s any more. Not sure what's happening with Ayton. Still, this is a potential problem we will need to solve. So what do you guys think? How will we best defend against teams putting 5 shooters on the floor to try to force Rudy off the floor?


Offense
Others have mentioned the key will also be our ability to take advantage offensively when teams go small against Rudy, therefore forcing them to put a traditional big back out there, which will make it harder for teams to go "5 out" against us. Of course, mitigating the damage those small-ball "5 out" lineups can do against us will make this less crucial, but it will still be important.

Toward that end, I can think of two possible solutions, one of which is kind of obvious.

First, Rudy is a big lob threat. He's not really a good low-post scorer in the traditional Embiid-sense, so he can't take advantage of smaller guys that way. But I have to think on pick and rolls against smaller guys, Utah should have been able to punish teams more. I don't understand why Utah wasn't able to take great advantage of pick-and-roll lobs when opponents have gone small. I know in the first year, Conley didn't do it much because he'd never had a big man like that in Memphis, though he did get better at that last year. And Mitchell, I'd need to see the stats on, but I definitely got the sense that he wasn't that great at getting Rudy the ball in those situations. For us, I think DLO and Ant really need to start working on running a lot of pick and rolls with Gobert to get that chemistry down in anticipation for the playoffs.

Second, I think this is where having KAT and Gobert could be turned to our advantage offensively. If opponents go small to get 5 shooters out there, that means not only will they have to put a smaller guy on Gobert defensively but also probably on KAT. That will make it harder for opponents to go to all-shooting lineups but still have the length defensively to deal with both KAT and Rudy. Dallas could put a guy like Kleber on Rudy defensively and survive because Utah's next biggest guy was Royce O'Neal. But we'll have two 7 footers, so an opponent would have to likely put their longest defender on KAT for defensive purposes rather than on Gobert. Unless you're talking about Jokic, that probably means KAT would have a smaller defender on him on the perimeter, which should make it easier for him to just shoot over them. And that means Rudy could have an even smaller defender on him than he's had to deal with in the past. I have to think that will give us a bit more opportunity to take advantage on the offensive end. Plus, Kyle Anderson is long as hell and can pass pretty well. (He's also really a good perimeter defender, though you wouldn't think it to look at him). I can imagine in addition to pick and rolls from DLO and Ant, we can try to run a bit of offense through Anderson whose length might allow him to just pass right over a team going small against us. KAT's not a bad passer either, when he's careful. And while Rudy isn't really a low-post scorer in the tradition sense, KAT can do that, and if a team goes small against us, it might be a chance for him to try to do that a bit as well as just shooting over his defender more easily.

In other words, I think there are two reasons why we may be more successful at punishing teams that go small against us in the playoffs than Utah was, and one additional reason for hope. First, because I think our perimeter defense should be better than Utah's was. Second, because KAT gives us more length to punish teams that go small against us, and we just generally have a good amount of length that would potentially cascade offensive advantages down the line if teams go small against us. And finally, DLO is a nifty passer and Ant doesn't have the chemistry baggage that Mitchell had with Gobert, so there are a couple signs we could get some real lobs against small opponents. Plus KAT and SloMo should also be able to hit Rudy for some nice lob passes as well.


It all remains to be seen if we can actually do all of this. But to the extent that Rudy has had playoff issues, they don't seem to have been entirely his fault, and there's reason to think we should be better than Utah was at preventing them from sinking us. *fingers crossed*

This is an excellent breakdown and covers some of what i was going to post after reading a couple well thought out comments from a Utah on the Gobert article by Jon K on the Athletic. You already covered a few points he made so ai will add to it.

On defense he pointed out just how small the Jazz were overall which hurt their D. Royce o'Newl is a good player but he is actually pretty undersized. Just look at their roster and guys that play and basically they play nobody over 6'8". In glee was one of the bigger players of the last few years and he got hurt and traded. Meanwhile the Wolves have MCDaniels at SF who is bigger than anyone Utah played outside of center. Edwards is a pretty big shooting guard and Russell is as big as Mitchell. I'm starting to wonder how bad Mitchell really was on defense. Let's be honest early in his career Bogdonovic head not considered a good defender. I think that was changing a bit before he got to Utah but i would hope that Towns with his size could play in the neighborhood of similar D while offering more much more scoring, rebounding and shot blocking.

On offense the Wolves have 2 big time scorers. The Jazz had 1. Part of the issue in the playoffs is being able to score. In the regular season they were a very good offensive team but did that fall off in the playoffs? I didn't pay attention (didn't care) but I would be interested to look at it more. It seems to me Mitchell would have been the high level guy and teams could try and take him away. He suggested Russell will be the best passer Gobert has played with since Rubio. I could see that. I love mike Conely but he is more of a game manager than a guy that really makes plays for guys. Even if Conely and Russell and closer to even McLaughlin is a pretty good passer. Ingles was their other guy that averaged 5 assists per game a couple seasons.

Take it FWIW this fan absolutely praised Gobert as a person and said he likely will get along well with the Wolves. He said Gobert is highly competitive and expects the best out of his teammates and works incredibly hard and keeps himself in top shape. If Mitchell really did struggle on defense...I think we may know what the problem may have been on that roster and Gobert wasn't exactly the issue.

Also Jon K replied to a comment about moving Naz and said that the Wolves really like him and think the Gobert trade will help him. I could see him being more of a viable PF option playing sole minutes next to Gobert than Towns. I think one key to this trade is if the Wolves get more out of a guy like Naz than they would have otherwise that may help make up for trading away some of the value in the deal. That could be especially true if Naz had little trade value around the league which might be true but it would surprise me just a little. McLaughlin might be another guy they get more value from if he really is up to the task of being a good NBA backup PG which ai think he is That could make up for some of the loss of a guy like Beverly. In this article Jon K also insinuated that the wolves may feel like this deal may be good for Russell too. We will see.

lipoli390 wrote:Fantastic post, Drew! Lots to unpack and think about. I'm still pondering. I think you've correctly identified both the risks and potential advantages Gobert gives us relative to teams that choose to put 5 smaller, quick scorers on the floor.

Your post trigger a lot of thoughts in my head. One thought it triggered was the importance of DLO. I think the Gobert deal makes DLO much more important to the Wolves than he was before the deal. DLO has his detractors and I've never been a fan of his game. But I don't think anyone can deny that DLO is an excellent pick-and-roll player. In fact, I think that's by far the strongest part of his game and so far with the Wolves I believe that part of his game has been underutilized. The one impressive offensive aspect to Gobert's game, in my view, is his pick-and-roll play - both setting picks and finishing.

I was among those interested in dealing DLO this summer, although I couldn't think of a deal that made sense. And I was inclined to say we should let him walk next summer unless he'd agree to a contract at $20M per year or less. I think the Gobert deal makes retaining DLO long term more of a priority for the Wolves. I'm still not sure how high I think the Wolves should go to keep him. And the size of Gobert's contract makes keeping DLO more problematic financially. But it's another way in which the Gobert deal has dramatically changed the calculus for the Wolves going forward.