Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-was-here wrote:Just circling back to that incredible Dallas win, which may have big reverberations as many of you guys are speculating above.

But what I come back to is what Luka did to the Suns early in that game - being aggressive, hitting step back 3s, laughing it up, and talking trash with the home crowd. He just demoralized the Suns out of the gate and they could never recover. You know who reminds me of Luka a bit? Ant.

First, Ant has a similar capability of going on these mini-surges where he takes your breath away with the shot making and drives to the hoop. It doesn't happen every game, but I've seen it enough now where it doesn't surprise me. Second, like Luka, he LOVES the bright lights and seems to be un-phased by big moments. It's just fun to him. He's almost the anti-KAT in how he doesn't take himself too seriously or get himself wound up.

I'm definitely not saying Ant is as good as Luka and may be he'll never get to that level, but man, the mental makeup and talent is there. He holds the keys to the franchise because he checks a hell of a lot of boxes when it comes to what you want in a playoff-caliber alpha dog.

Great observation about Luka, Q. And I agree with your take on Ant as having a similar alpha mentality. I don't think a team can compete for an NBA title if one of their top two or three players doesn't have that sort of mentality. Luka is the best example of that sort of mentality in today's NBA. He's the most recent in long line of players in that mold who led their teams to championships or near championships. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Kobe, Shaq, LeBron, Giannis - talented players who, as you put it, are totally un-phased by big moments. Actually, that type of player actually loves big moments.

Other current players who have that mentality in addition to Luka are Giannis, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. I think Tatum has that same mental toughness, but a quieter version more akin to Giannis. Not surprisingly, all of the four NBA finalists have that sort of player among their top two most talented players. I think the Suns lack that sort of player. I suppose Chris Paul could be considered that type of player, but I'm not sure. The mentally we're talking about only works if the player can also assert his will physically. I don't think Chris Paul can do that anymore at age 37.

If you were starting an NBA franchise and could pick one current NBA player to build around, who would it be? I'd take Giannis, but my clear second choice would be Luka.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:Just circling back to that incredible Dallas win, which may have big reverberations as many of you guys are speculating above.

But what I come back to is what Luka did to the Suns early in that game - being aggressive, hitting step back 3s, laughing it up, and talking trash with the home crowd. He just demoralized the Suns out of the gate and they could never recover. You know who reminds me of Luka a bit? Ant.

First, Ant has a similar capability of going on these mini-surges where he takes your breath away with the shot making and drives to the hoop. It doesn't happen every game, but I've seen it enough now where it doesn't surprise me. Second, like Luka, he LOVES the bright lights and seems to be un-phased by big moments. It's just fun to him. He's almost the anti-KAT in how he doesn't take himself too seriously or get himself wound up.

I'm definitely not saying Ant is as good as Luka and may be he'll never get to that level, but man, the mental makeup and talent is there. He holds the keys to the franchise because he checks a hell of a lot of boxes when it comes to what you want in a playoff-caliber alpha dog.

Great observation about Luka, Q. And I agree with your take on Ant as having a similar alpha mentality. I don't think a team can compete for an NBA title if one of their top two or three players doesn't have that sort of mentality. Luka is the best example of that sort of mentality in today's NBA. He's the most recent in long line of players in that mold who led their teams to championships or near championships. Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Kobe, Shaq, LeBron, Giannis - talented players who, as you put it, are totally un-phased by big moments. Actually, that type of player actually loves big moments.

Other current players who have that mentality in addition to Luka are Giannis, Jimmy Butler, and Steph Curry. I think Tatum has that same mental toughness, but a quieter version more akin to Giannis. Not surprisingly, all of the four NBA finalists have that sort of player among their top two most talented players. I think the Suns lack that sort of player. I suppose Chris Paul could be considered that type of player, but I'm not sure. The mentally we're talking about only works if the player can also assert his will physically. I don't think Chris Paul can do that anymore at age 37.

If you were starting an NBA franchise and could pick one current NBA player to build around, who would it be? I'd take Giannis, but my clear second choice would be Luka.

Chris Paul has always had a struggle with taking over a game by scoring. That's because he is a true point guard floor general. At his age now I'm sure there are times he just can't do that anymore but last year it seemed more like he had figured out the right balance plus he had Booker and some other guys that really complimented everyone. It seemed like for years when he was younger Chris Paul had the game to offensively take over at times but he wouldn't always do it. It was a bit puzzling but again he has a different core mentality and that's also what makes him a great player. He really does make players better around him. I did not watch much of this series but I get the idea that Chris Paul was not the defender that he has been previously and I read and heard that the Mavs were going at him this series. If he wasn't a good defender that's a HUGE deal. Last years postseason he was still defending at a high level. I think it's pretty difficult for PGs to find that balance if they are also needed to score. Lebron has gotten criticized at times in his career for passing instead of taking over himself. He has some of the PG mentality to his game which to be honest I respect. KG had that too. It's not easy to find that balance and I just mentioned 3 of the greatest players of my lifetime. Imagine how tough it is for a guy like Russell who isn't that good and has legit ability to both score and play as more of a true PG. How many guys have played as PGs that also took over games offensively? I'm trying to think of someone since Isaiah Thomas. I gotta be forgetting someone right? Well I would say Lebron could be considered a PG but he is a freak. Luka is probably a PG too but a really big one.

Q makes a good point. Edwards is a fun dude. Luka is annoying but he is also really fun as well. I think both of those guys just have an ability to go out and play. Obviously they have to work on their craft and all the things to be very good players but it's a gift to just be able to ball. Like does it because he is ridiculously skilled snd has insane confidence. Edwards is pretty skilled has a ton of confidence and is really physically gifted. I'm not sure he will achieve Luka's all around offensive skill level (it would be scary) but he has physical gifts Luka doesn't and has a chance to be a really good defender. Both players should be fun to watch for years to come.

Monster - I think Chris Paul for many years imposed his will like the greats were talking about. Therefore, I put him in the same lineage as other great PGs like Magic, Isiah Thomas and Allen Iverson (even if you don't consider Iverson a PG). In the prime of his career, Chris Paul was averaging between 19 and 20 points along with his over 10 assists per game. Add to that about 2 steals per game. Unfortunately for Chris, he never won a title. So he joins the ranks of other greats like Barkley, Stockton and Malone in that regard. But I'd still consider Chris Paul, in his prime, to be one of those great, mentally tough players you need to compete for a championship. He's still amazingly good at age 37, but his age showed in the playoffs this year. Bottom line is that the Suns are in trouble going forward. Booker is an all-star caliber player, but he's not a star and doesn't have that mental edge the great ones have. Ayton isn't even an all-star level player. Beyond that, they have a number of good role players. As teams in the West like the Pelicans rise, the Suns will begin to fall.

I know it didn't work out here but damn Jimmy is great at basketball

kekgeek1 wrote:I know it didn't work out here but damn Jimmy is great at basketball

Hard not to respect his greatness. He doesn't have any overwhelming physical or athletic advantages, yet is right up there among the top 10 or 12 best players.

Q-was-here wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:I know it didn't work out here but damn Jimmy is great at basketball

Hard not to respect his greatness. He doesn't have any overwhelming physical or athletic advantages, yet is right up there among the top 10 or 12 best players.

I'm glad you used the term greatness, Q. I've always thought Butler was a really good, all-star caliber player. But watching him this season has convinced me that he's one of the League's few truly great players. All the more amazing that he's in that strata of players without any overwhelming physical or athletic advantages.

As we think about draft prospects, it's good to keep players like Jimmy Butler and Jalen Brunson in mind as players who aren't elite athletes or particularly big (especially Jalen) by NBA standards but who nevertheless become really good or great players through a combination of skills, IQ and determination.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:I know it didn't work out here but damn Jimmy is great at basketball

Hard not to respect his greatness. He doesn't have any overwhelming physical or athletic advantages, yet is right up there among the top 10 or 12 best players.

I'm glad you used the term greatness, Q. I've always thought Butler was a really good, all-star caliber player. But watching him this season has convinced me that he's one of the League's few truly great players. All the more amazing that he's in that strata of players without any overwhelming physical or athletic advantages.

As we think about draft prospects, it's good to keep players like Jimmy Butler and Jalen Brunson in mind as players who aren't elite athletes or particularly big (especially Jalen) by NBA standards but who nevertheless become really good or great players through a combination of skills, IQ and determination.

FVV is the poster child for too short. too slow not athletic etc etc.

Wiggy balling in the Conference finals. <sigh>

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wiggy balling in the Conference finals. <sigh>

He is an outstanding 4th banana

BloopOracle wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Wiggy balling in the Conference finals. <sigh>

He is an outstanding 4th banana

I don't care what fruit you want to call him. He was good on both ends of the floor, especially the way he handled Luka. Well done.