Minnesota Sports Forum

Lots of good thoughts in this last round of posts. Just a few more thoughts:

1. Adding Rubio to the team will be a net positive and I think he'll mesh just fine with DLO. And yes, he might help mentor Edwards, but I don't put that much stock in veteran mentoring. Young guys either have it inside them or they don't. I have a bit of a problem paying $35 million over two years to a backup PG. But honestly my main problem with the Rubio trade boils down to the opportunity costs, including (a) losing the value of JJ's expiring deal to use at the trade deadline when some of the best trade opportunities generally emerge and when Edwards and Culver should still have considerable value; (b) losing JJ as a player who provided a combination of interior size, skill and defense this team is sorely lacking; and (c) missing out on really good draft prospects like Saddiq Bey and Precious Achiuwa.

2. The fate of this team ultimately boils down to our core - KAT and DLO. They have to improved defensively and the Wolves front office has to build the right supporting cast around them to compensate for their weaknesses. So far, except perhaps for the acquisition of Rubio, the Wolves front office has failed to to upgrade the team's defense, which is of course the weakness that our two core players share. If this thing fails, it won't be a matter of trading DLO or KAT. I agree with Cam that if it doesn't work with DLO and KAT, then both will be dealt. The new owner will replace Rosas and the new PBO will blow up the core and start from scratch.

3. The one wild care is Edwards. If he's in the running for rookie of the year honors and looks like he's developing into the two-way star he clearly has the physical ability to become, that will open up all sort of possibilities - with our without the KAT/DLO duo.

Camden wrote:It's been said on here already, especially by me, but if you trade D'Angelo Russell you're likely trading Karl-Anthony Towns as well. If the plan is to blow it up entirely, then I get it. But if the plan is to move Russell and try to find someone that is better and will compliment Towns on and off the court, then I don't agree nor understand the thought process. Towns would very likely request a trade the minute Russell was shipped out. The Wolves have to be savvy enough to make this duo work or be prepared to rebuild with parts, specifically around Anthony Edwards. That's the situation.

I don't buy that narrative that you keep pushing. KAT has seen several of his friends come and go, and had no issue with it. If a DLO trade improves the team, I think KAT is more likely to stay here. I actually think the coach is more important factor in KAT's thinking and you don't hide your disdain for Ryan Saunders and I think Saunders and KAT have a good relationship and his departure would be more concerning to me in KAT's decision than DLO being traded to improve the club.

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:It's been said on here already, especially by me, but if you trade D'Angelo Russell you're likely trading Karl-Anthony Towns as well. If the plan is to blow it up entirely, then I get it. But if the plan is to move Russell and try to find someone that is better and will compliment Towns on and off the court, then I don't agree nor understand the thought process. Towns would very likely request a trade the minute Russell was shipped out. The Wolves have to be savvy enough to make this duo work or be prepared to rebuild with parts, specifically around Anthony Edwards. That's the situation.

I don't buy that narrative that you keep pushing. KAT has seen several of his friends come and go, and had no issue with it. If a DLO trade improves the team, I think KAT is more likely to stay here. I actually think the coach is more important factor in KAT's thinking and you don't hide your disdain for Ryan Saunders and I think Saunders and KAT have a good relationship and his departure would be more concerning to me in KAT's decision than DLO being traded to improve the club.

Disdain? I don't have disdain for Ryan. I just don't think he's a good NBA head coach. And of course I don't hide that view. Why would I?

My point about trading both isn't based on the friendship between KAT and DLO. It's based on the reality that if this team can't get out of the lottery with KAT and DLO, then I don't think it's realistic to expect another re-tooling around KAT with DLO being swapped for someone else. I think Rosas is all in on both and this team will rise or fall with those two all-stars as the team's core.

lipoli390 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

Camden wrote:It's been said on here already, especially by me, but if you trade D'Angelo Russell you're likely trading Karl-Anthony Towns as well. If the plan is to blow it up entirely, then I get it. But if the plan is to move Russell and try to find someone that is better and will compliment Towns on and off the court, then I don't agree nor understand the thought process. Towns would very likely request a trade the minute Russell was shipped out. The Wolves have to be savvy enough to make this duo work or be prepared to rebuild with parts, specifically around Anthony Edwards. That's the situation.

I don't buy that narrative that you keep pushing. KAT has seen several of his friends come and go, and had no issue with it. If a DLO trade improves the team, I think KAT is more likely to stay here. I actually think the coach is more important factor in KAT's thinking and you don't hide your disdain for Ryan Saunders and I think Saunders and KAT have a good relationship and his departure would be more concerning to me in KAT's decision than DLO being traded to improve the club.

Disdain? I don't have disdain for Ryan. I just don't think he's a good NBA head coach. And of course I don't hide that view. Why would I?

My point about trading both isn't based on the friendship between KAT and DLO. It's based on the reality that if this team can't get out of the lottery with KAT and DLO, then I don't think it's realistic to expect another re-tooling around KAT with DLO being swapped for someone else. I think Rosas is all in on both and this team will rise or fall with those two all-stars as the team's core.

I do not disagree with anything you said. Unfortunately, I do not see an outcome where our two "stars" compete in this conference.

Ryan is a nice enough guy, but not yet fit for this job.it is just Glen's club again.

It seems kind of mind-boggling to be drawing conclusions about how effective a KAT-DLO pairing will be when they played exactly one game together, DLO's first game as a Wolf, and two other starters who were playing just their 2nd games as Wolves. They lost to an elite team, Toronto.

I suppose you can look at that one game and each player's past deficiencies and cast a negative outlook. I happen to have a very positive outlook because of their individual strengths, a clear style of play being established and players surrounding them that will help facilitate their strengths and style of play.

You can be down on Ryan, but Rosas has placed well respected assistants around him, especially Vanterpool and Prigioni. I feel very good about the coaching staff as a whole. I also feel very good about the complete roster as well. And with the exception of Ed Davis, it is locked in for next two years! I have no expectation of some impending shakeup in the roster at the trade deadline or next off-season. I expect this roster to have a full year to grow and develop. I expect us to make the playoffs.

Of course, this outlook could be just one more in the many my outlooks that have flopped. :-( But as of right now, I am happy as a clam! :)

I'm quite optimistic about the upcoming season too, Tim, and think it will at least be very entertaining. Count me as one who is dubious right now about the KAT/D-Lo pairing though. Yes, they only played together one game and I'm not going to draw strong conclusions from it, but my recollection of that game was quite negative . I remember a Toronto team that seemed to be just going through the motions, and I remember not having a good feeling about how we looked when our two stars were on the court together. Sure enough, they combined for 11 turnovers, and Russell was a disappointing -22...a bad sign from a high-scoring star who has shown poor on/off numbers during his career and whose tendency to turn the ball over seems to be getting worse rather than better as his career progresses. I was not a fan of the trade that brought D-Lo here- dating back to his college years, I've always seen him as lacking maturity, and the Nick Young incident cemented those feelings. I also have concerns about Towns' personal characteristics. His issues with Butler and now his association with the Kardashian Klown Show are not the characteristics I look for in a winner and team leader.

I guess that's why I'm so positive on the Rubio and Davis acquisitions, because unlike our two stars, they do have the leadership and personal qualities I like to see on my team. I gather some of you are not believers in the whole "mentor" thing, but I think it's real. I like that the two senior members of our team are both known as leaders and exceptional teammates. I also get a good vibe from our 19-year-old rookie, both based on his demeanor during interviews and Crean's glowing reviews of his character, and am holding on to a belief that he will be a positive influence on this club. In any event, I recognize the enormous talent KAT and D-Lo bring to the table, and am hopeful that our two new veterans will be successful in forming them into winners as opposed to mostly stat stuffers.

I don't want to feel so negative about our two stars and also recognize they are young and fully capable of maturing. If they can harness their obvious talents and help turn this team into a winner, I'll happily change my tune and celebrate Rosas for bringing in D-Lo.

I was just thinking about what would need to happen to really elevate the future outlook of this Wolves roster. The obvious answers to that rhetorical question are the continued development of Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell as well as the ascent of first overall pick Anthony Edwards. Both would be major in the Wolves' chances of contending. There is no doubt about that. Most of us would agree that there is incredible room for improvement for all three because of their high talent level and physical gifts.

But the real piece that can change everything for the Wolves is Jarrett Culver. Oddly enough, I think I'm becoming the most optimistic poster here in regards to Culver. Who saw that one coming? Everyone forget your impressions of him through his rookie season. I know his first year was a big disappointment. Wipe the slate clean for a second. Now, think about the "what if" when it comes to him -- if Culver figures it out and becomes what he was projected to be just a year ago. That changes everything for Minnesota whether it's as a valuable role player in between a couple stars or as a trade chip to bring in another star.

Culver has the tools and the talent to be a versatile wing defender that can guard 1-3 affectively. He has the court vision and handle to be a secondary ball-handler in the half-court as well as grab-and-go threat in transition.

He also has some history that suggests his three-point shot is capable of a bounce back next year. He was a 38.2 percent shooter from deep his freshman year in legitimate minutes as a role player. Obviously, we know his shooting regressed his sophomore season with a greater role in the offense, but bear with me. We're establishing some sense of a track record of acceptable shooting ability. The first three months of his rookie year he shot a miserable 27-108 (25-percent) in 31 games. That's not going to get the job done at all. However, the following three months of his rookie year he shot 39-113 (34.5-percent) in 32 games. I'm not saying Culver's the next Klay Thompson or anything comparable, but making 1.2 3P per game on 3.5 3PA in what was essentially the second half of the season isn't terrible. If he's able to build off of that second half and approach the 35 or 36-percent mark, then we really do have value with him as he provides complimentary skills that fit the team needs.

Or forget that his rookie season even happened. He's a 6'7", 194-pound wing with a 6'8" wingspan, 45-inch vertical, and solid fundamentals on the defensive end. He's not even 22-years old yet. I'm not ready to completely rule out Culver as an important part of this franchise. He feels like rotten goods because of his draft slot, the trade up, and other players that outperformed him last year, but these kids develop over time. He could be a key player to watch this upcoming season as his growth could significantly change this franchise's future for the better.

Camden wrote:I was just thinking about what would need to happen to really elevate the future outlook of this Wolves roster. The obvious answers to that rhetorical question are the continued development of Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell as well as the ascent of first overall pick Anthony Edwards. Both would be major in the Wolves' chances of contending. There is no doubt about that. Most of us would agree that there is incredible room for improvement for all three because of their high talent level and physical gifts.

But the real piece that can change everything for the Wolves is Jarrett Culver. Oddly enough, I think I'm becoming the most optimistic poster here in regards to Culver. Who saw that one coming? Everyone forget your impressions of him through his rookie season. I know his first year was a big disappointment. Wipe the slate clean for a second. Now, think about the "what if" when it comes to him -- if Culver figures it out and becomes what he was projected to be just a year ago. That changes everything for Minnesota whether it's as a valuable role player in between a couple stars or as a trade chip to bring in another star.

Culver has the tools and the talent to be a versatile wing defender that can guard 1-3 affectively. He has the court vision and handle to be a secondary ball-handler in the half-court as well as grab-and-go threat in transition.

He also has some history that suggests his three-point shot is capable of a bounce back next year. He was a 38.2 percent shooter from deep his freshman year in legitimate minutes as a role player. Obviously, we know his shooting regressed his sophomore season with a greater role in the offense, but bear with me. We're establishing some sense of a track record of acceptable shooting ability. The first three months of his rookie year he shot a miserable 27-108 (25-percent) in 31 games. That's not going to get the job done at all. However, the following three months of his rookie year he shot 39-113 (34.5-percent) in 32 games. I'm not saying Culver's the next Klay Thompson or anything comparable, but making 1.2 3P per game on 3.5 3PA in what was essentially the second half of the season isn't terrible. If he's able to build off of that second half and approach the 35 or 36-percent mark, then we really do have value with him as he provides complimentary skills that fit the team needs.

Or forget that his rookie season even happened. He's a 6'7", 194-pound wing with a 6'8" wingspan, 45-inch vertical, and solid fundamentals on the defensive end. He's not even 22-years old yet. I'm not ready to completely rule out Culver as an important part of this franchise. He feels like rotten goods because of his draft slot, the trade up, and other players that outperformed him last year, but these kids develop over time. He could be a key player to watch this upcoming season as his growth could significantly change this franchise's future for the better.

I agree completely, Cam. I was actually going to write up a similar post before reading yours.

FNG wrote:Yes, they only played together one game and I'm not going to draw strong conclusions from it, but my recollection of that game was quite negative. I remember a Toronto team that seemed to be just going through the motions, and I remember not having a good feeling about how we looked when our two stars were on the court together. Sure enough, they combined for 11 turnovers, and Russell was a disappointing -22... a bad sign from a high-scoring star who has shown poor on/off numbers during his career and whose tendency to turn the ball over seems to be getting worse rather than better as his career progresses.

So, I have to disagree here. I've debated in D'Angelo Russell's favor time and time again and comments like this are a big part of the reason. I don't think he gets a fair shake on this board at times.

Russell scored 22 points on 7-12 shooting from the floor and 4-5 from three that game. He made all four of his free throws. He dropped five assists to go along with an unsightly six turnovers -- not a great ratio. However, you'll take a .799 TS% from your lead guard any game of the week. And while you noted his +/- was -22 you didn't mention that his BPM was 1.9. Judging by the rest of the Wolves as well as the Raptors, I'd say that Russell wasn't the issue in that game -- far from it. Malik Beasley, Josh Okogie, and James Johnson were significantly outplayed by OG Anunobi, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, and Patrick McCaw. The supporting cast got beat badly.

Also, Russell's TOV% the last three years of 16.8, 13.6, and 13.6 point him to be trending in the right direction, not wrong. His 13.6 TOV% in 2019-20 was better than Ben Simmons, Ricky Rubio, Ja Morant, Trae Young, Kyle Lowry, LeBron James, Devin Booker, Luka Doncic, Jrue Holiday, James Harden, Chris Paul, and Malcolm Brogdon... Basically, what I'm saying is that Russell takes care of the ball better than a lot of his peers, at least statistically.

In no way, shape, or form is Russell a perfect player -- not even close, really -- but I think he's a lot better than how you view him, FNG.

Good debate on DLO between Cam and FNG. I've been a DLO skeptic from the time the deal was made last February. But Cam's right about the statistical improvements DLO has shown thus far in his young career. And it's worth noting again that he was an Eastern Conference all-star a couple seasons ago and he's still only 24 years old.

What's generally unsettling about the Wolves generally right now is that there are major questions surrounding all of our most talented young guys. Will KAT ever become a decent defender, consistently hustle and show some leadership? Has DLO finally grown up and will he ever become a decent defender? Will Culver (or Okogie) become a decent perimeter shooter? Is the Beasley we saw in his short stint with the Wolves last season the Beasley we can expect to see going forward? Same question for Juancho? Will Naz Reid continue a linear progression from last season? Does Edwards have the competitive drive and passion for the game necessary to reach his amazing potential? Lots of questions. A few good answers and this team can make the playoffs next season and eventually become a contender.