Minnesota Sports Forum

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:Thibodeau: "Colangelo, it's me, Thibs."

Colangelo: "How's it going Uncle Thibs!?"

Thibodeau: "Yeah, listen, I'll give you my pick and Adreian Payne for Nerlens Noel."

Colangelo: "Oh, I don't know about that. We have high hopes for Nerl--"

Thibodeau: "Do it. C'mon. Do it. Pop it. C'mon. Do it."

Colangelo: *laughs* "You're really funny, Thibs. You're a funny guy."

Thibodeau: "What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What?"

Thibodeau: "He's a big boy, he knows what he said. What did ya say? Funny how?

Colangelo: "Just... ya know... you're funny."

Thibodeau: "I make you laugh, I'm here to fuckin amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how?"

Colangelo: "Know what? Deal. Take Nerlens."

Ha, good stuff Cam! Such a classic movie scene, it's worth seeing the original.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY

Sorry. Not an expert on that film. Saw it, thought it was kind of a downer, never rewatched it. But it was better than "Dances with Wolves", no pun intended.

If Philly gets the Lakers pick, they have four first rounders. Their own pick (1-4) Laker's pick (4-5) and 24 and 26. If we give up our pick for Noel, I also want one or both of their late first rounders. If we get both first round picks, I'd be willing to throw in Bazz in addition to our pick.

Well said SP!! You will soon get another response from Cam just like the one above but word just a tad different.

TeamRicky wrote:If Philly gets the Lakers pick, they have four first rounders. Their own pick (1-4) Laker's pick (4-5) and 24 and 26. If we give up our pick for Noel, I also want one or both of their late first rounders. If we get both first round picks, I'd be willing to throw in Bazz in addition to our pick.

The Laker pick is top-3 protected this year. So if they are #1 and #3, I don't think they do Noel/#3 for #5 because they aren't having cap/lux issues. But yeah, Noel is not worth the #5 pick.

There were three players in the NBA that averaged at least 11.0 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 1.4 SPG and 1.4 BPG in 2015-16.

- Paul Millsap (age 30)
- DeMarcus Cousins (age 25)
- Nerlens Noel (age 21)

Noel improved or stayed relatively the same across the board, statistically. Improved his PER from 15.0 to 16.2, his TS% from .493 to .544, TRB% from 14.3 to 15.0, AST% from 9.8 to 10.5, STL% stayed the same at 2.9%, but his BLK% went down from 5.0 to 3.9 (though, it's fair to wonder if this was affected by the Okafor pairing).

I'll admit, it's difficult to gauge how good a player is when they're in as bad of a situation as Philly is, but I don't think calling Noel a bad player, or "not good", is all that fair, especially when you consider the production he put up for his second season in the NBA. That's while also ignoring the defensive potential he's shown glimpses of numerous times (PHI's much-improved defense his rookie season. Also, his one game showing vs Carmelo Anthony this year where he locked him down defensively late in the 4th quarter. Rare to see from a big).

I think LST listed that two mid-late first rounders were worth more on the value board than the No. 5 or No. 6 pick, but I'd much rather have the more-proven young player with good upside and at a position of need.

Camden wrote:There were three players in the NBA that averaged at least 11.0 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 1.4 SPG and 1.4 BPG in 2015-16.

- Paul Millsap (age 30)
- DeMarcus Cousins (age 25)
- Nerlens Noel (age 21)

Noel improved or stayed relatively the same across the board, statistically. Improved his PER from 15.0 to 16.2, his TS% from .493 to .544, TRB% from 14.3 to 15.0, AST% from 9.8 to 10.5, STL% stayed the same at 2.9%, but his BLK% went down from 5.0 to 3.9 (though, it's fair to wonder if this was affected by the Okafor pairing).

I'll admit, it's difficult to gauge how good a player is when they're in as bad of a situation as Philly is, but I don't think calling Noel a bad player, or "not good", is all that fair, especially when you consider the production he put up for his second season in the NBA. That's while also ignoring the defensive potential he's shown glimpses of numerous times (PHI's much-improved defense his rookie season. Also, his one game showing vs Carmelo Anthony this year where he locked him down defensively late in the 4th quarter. Rare to see from a big).

I think LST listed that two mid-late first rounders were worth more on the value board than the No. 5 or No. 6 pick, but I'd much rather have the more-proven young player with good upside and at a position of need.

We all have our favorite stats. Mine used to be PER, until it was pointed out to me that if player X has a 20 PER but lets the guy he is guarding get a 25 PER, how good can he be considered? Then I discovered that 82 games actually tracked that, so then "PER split" became my favorite.

KAT is not on that list because he was seven/tenths of a steal away. I still like KAT better.

Though some might say it was Noel's 2nd season, the laws of NBA free agency say it was his 3rd.

And once again, he is not horrible. He just isn't worth the #5 pick. The simple fact that if he does get it together this year, you don't know if it's because he is out of Philly or because he decided to finally try in his contract year. Meanwhile, the Wolves would almost have to match any offer for the simple fact that if they didn't that meant they gave up the #5 pick for one year of a player.

The cons outweigh the pros. That's all. It's not even the worst idea. I still do this trade over Serge Ibaka.

Meh. I've never been in love with PER. It ignores a lot of the game, but it's just one of many stats that can be used to illustrate a point. If 15.0 is league average, then Noel's been that or better both seasons he's been in the league, which isn't necessarily easy when you're a young player, especially in the front court.

Also, defense has always been a team concept. If PER split is your way to determine whether or not a player is good or not, more power to you. It's ignoring the part where you watch the games, but again, it's hard to judge guys on bad teams.

I realize he's on his third year of his contract. That doesn't scare me. Not getting a good player out of this first round pick does scare me because that's super possible and we need to stop wasting assets (1st rounder from Miami or Thaddeus Young; future first rounder in Adreian Payne deal). This class is really difficult to be confident in. And as always, fans seem to overrate the value of their pick. Moving the pick for a young player that's been productive in his two seasons is an attractive option, one I'd feel good about.

Side question: Would you rather pay big money to a 23-year old Noel or a 27-year old Dieng?

Camden wrote:Meh. I've never been in love with PER. It ignores a lot of the game, but it's just one of many stats that can be used to illustrate a point. If 15.0 is league average, then Noel's been that or better both seasons he's been in the league, which isn't necessarily easy when you're a young player, especially in the front court.

Also, defense has always been a team concept. If PER split is your way to determine whether or not a player is good or not, more power to you. It's ignoring the part where you watch the games, but again, it's hard to judge guys on bad teams.

I realize he's on his third year of his contract. That doesn't scare me. Not getting a good player out of this first round pick does scare me because that's super possible and we need to stop wasting assets (1st rounder from Miami or Thaddeus Young; future first rounder in Adreian Payne deal). This class is really difficult to be confident in. And as always, fans seem to overrate the value of their pick. Moving the pick for a young player that's been productive in his two seasons is an attractive option, one I'd feel good about.

Side question: Would you rather pay big money to a 23-year old Noel or a 27-year old Dieng?

I guess we'll have to agree-to-disagree on Noel.

And like I said, the solution to not liking the #5 pick is trading down, not giving it away. I am not confident in this class either, but I think for different reasons. I don't think Simmons can shoot from the outside well enough, and I think Hield is just too small. Just because it worked for Curry doesn't mean it works for everyone.

"27 year old Dieng"? When I read that, I almost wet myself. How can he only be 27? Did he start at Duke when he was 14? Is he the Sheldon Cooper of the NBA? Then I pulled up his profile and read where he is 31 and decided that it was a hypothetical that would require much time to research.

......Actually, less time than I thought. A slight edge to Dieng. He played a lot of minutes his 27th year (more than Noel last year) almost exclusively at the 3. His split at the 3 was plus 1.3. Yes, he would be older and also in a contract year, but he had history of getting it done. So SLIGHT edge. But still not excited about trading a #5 pick for one year of a player.

My favorite single stat is RPM and based on RPM, Noel is average at best (64th out of 100). He's very good defensively but he's very poor offensively. I think Noel is a good player and perhaps can improve offensively, but I don't give up #5 for him without getting at least a first rounder back, preferably two if we add Bazz to the trade.

Alternatively we trade 5 and Bazz for Noel, Covington and 24.

There's also the real possibility that the Sixers wouldn't want to trade Noel for a deal centered around the No. 5 pick in this draft. It just would make sense from my standpoint because they'd have the opportunity to open a spot in the front-court for Saric while having another pick to address their putrid back-court. But again, that's not a given considering what Noel's shown thus far.