Wolves v Magic GTD

[KG4Ever]

Without KAT and Ricky, this roster is easily worst in NBA. How anyone can expect this team to win a game is beyond me.

[KG4Ever]

Wolves need to tank for a top 3 and hope for some lottery luck, otherwise season is a complete waste. Ryan's not the reason we are bad, but he'll be fired as a convenient scapegoat. Rosas will probably get one more year and he'll be gone too (sooner if Glenn finds a buyer). Enjoy the comedy.

[kekgeek]

Without KAT and Ricky, this roster is easily worst in NBA. How anyone can expect this team to win a game is beyond me.

Why can every other team in the NBA win games when they are short handed?

The thunder are playing .500 ball. The Knicks are playing .500 ball. The Rockets were winning games with 8 players. The Grizzlies went 5-4 when they were missing 3 starters

[AbeVigodaLive]

Anybody see Saunders' comments after the game?

He mentioned "immaturity," "ball stopping" and "bad shot selection." He didn't mention names. But let's recap:

The Wolves were up 81 - 91 when Russell returned with 4:37 left.

4:20: Russell gives Naz Reid a "hand grenade" 25 feet away from the hoop with 1.6 seconds on the shot clock... Turnover. Then he yells at Reid.
3:52: Russell Turnover.
2:54: Russell misses fadeaway 20 footer. Airball.
1:43: Russell misses fadeaway 16 footer.
0:22: Russell misses 10 footer.

The only buckets during that spell were a 3-point play from McLaughlin. And a McLaughlin to Reid dunk.

So we can complain about Saunders. There are by my count about 773 things we can point to. But the NBA remains built on one thing and one thing only... more than ever before.

PLAYERS.

Yet, I don't know any other organization who complains about bad coaching more. Granted, with Sidney Lowe, Randy Wittman, Kurt Rambis and Saunders, we know bad coaching. But at the end of the day... PLAYERS win games. Star players... max contract guys.

I think it's telling that Russell went 0 - 3 with 2 TOs down the stretch. I think it's telling that Saunders felt more comfortable with McLaughlin out there when he had a max contract guy on the court.

Now Saunders can't come out and say "DLO got sticky fingers and took bad shots." Not if he wants another coaching gig reaching any of DLO's cronies. But he can parse his words and talk about "ball stopping" and "bad shot selection" and those who've watched D. Russell play will know exactly what he's talking about.

Saunders is not a good coach.

But it's probably time Wolves fans start blaming the players rather than Saunders, Thibodeau, Adelman, Wittman, et al for being the worst organization ever.




[Note: It's also very fair to rip Edwards and Beasley for "ball stopping" too. But the Wolves JUST brought in all three guys to play together. That's on Rosas for putting so many of THOSE kinds of players on the same team and thinking it'll work. Edwards took 14 shots in 23 minutes. He had 0 rebounds. And 0 assists.]

[Lipoli390]

Without KAT and Ricky, this roster is easily worst in NBA. How anyone can expect this team to win a game is beyond me.

The roster was good enough to beat Orlando tonight. In fact, this roster absolutely should have defeated Orlando tonight. But when you add poor coaching to a mediocre roster, the team will lose.

Knowing that Abe might read this, I'm not absolving the players of blame for tonight's loss. In fact, I put a big part of the blame on DLO. He's a max player who, down the stretch, was pathetic. Yet, the head coach should have had JMac handle the ball and run the offense. Instead it was DLO handling the ball and running the offense down the stretch except for one possession and on that possession the Wolves scored. DLO consistently gets tunnel vision throughout games, especially at the end of games.

I also place a lot of blame on Edwards, who has been reminding me why I didn't want the Wolves to draft him. Yes, I know he has a nice smile and told his trainer he was going to shoot threes because that's the way the Wolves play. I also blame Culver for playing like a clueless rookie in his second season. However, our head coach continues to give those two players substantial minutes while Nowell, who looked really good in preseason doesn't play at all. Meanwhile our hottest and best player tonight, McDaniels, sat on the bench down the stretch as the Wolves lead evaporated. There's no getting around the fact that Ryan's coaching tonight was pathetic. And sadly, tonight's game wasn't an isolated incident.

Having said all that, Rosas remains culpable for a series of dumb moves, starting with drafting Culver and including his trade for DLO last season. I'm still dumbfounded that Rosas traded for a methodical, half-court, pick-and-roll PG to play a style Rosas described as fast and open with lots of ball movement. Even worse that adding DLO to this roster meant adding another poor defender to an already bad defensive team. Yes, while I've never been a fan of DLO's game, he's better than he's looked so far this season. Unfortunately, he's a pick-and-roll PG on a team that doesn't play pick-and-roll. In any event, he was the wrong guy to pair with KAT on this team and Rosas gave up far too much to get him.

There's little reason to watch this team. We don't even have the next draft to look forward to because the Warriors will likely have both of our picks in addition to their own. Oh, and they have Wiseman while we have the guy with the great smile who can't shoot.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Without KAT and Ricky, this roster is easily worst in NBA. How anyone can expect this team to win a game is beyond me.

The roster was good enough to beat Orlando tonight. In fact, this roster absolutely should have defeated Orlando tonight. But when you add poor coaching to a mediocre roster, the team will lose.

Knowing that Abe might read this, I'm not absolving the players of blame for tonight's loss. In fact, I put a big part of the blame on DLO. He's a max player who, down the stretch, was pathetic. Yet, the head coach should have had JMac handle the ball and run the offense. Instead it was DLO handling the ball and running the offense down the stretch except for one possession and on that possession the Wolves scored. DLO consistently gets tunnel vision throughout games, especially at the end of games.

I also place a lot of blame on Edwards, who has been reminding me why I didn't want the Wolves to draft him. Yes, I know he has a nice smile and told his trainer he was going to shoot threes because that's the way the Wolves play. I also blame Culver for playing like a clueless rookie in his second season. However, our head coach continues to give those two players substantial minutes while Nowell, who looked really good in preseason doesn't play at all. Meanwhile our hottest and best player tonight, McDaniels, sat on the bench down the stretch as the Wolves lead evaporated. There's no getting around the fact that Ryan's coaching tonight was pathetic. And sadly, tonight's game wasn't an isolated incident.

Having said all that, Rosas remains culpable for a series of dumb moves, starting with drafting Culver and including his trade for DLO last season. I'm still dumbfounded that Rosas traded for a methodical, half-court, pick-and-roll PG to play a style Rosas described as fast and open with lots of ball movement. Even worse that adding DLO to this roster meant adding another poor defender to an already bad defensive team. Yes, while I've never been a fan of DLO's game, he's better than he's looked so far this season. Unfortunately, he's a pick-and-roll PG on a team that doesn't play pick-and-roll. In any event, he was the wrong guy to pair with KAT on this team and Rosas gave up far too much to get him.

There's little reason to watch this team. We don't even have the next draft to look forward to because the Warriors will likely have both of our picks in addition to their own. Oh, and they have Wiseman while we have the guy with the great smile who can't shoot.

Sure. There's a lot of blame to go around. I think we agree about most of the targets and reasons.

BUT...

I can't think of a single coach who wouldn't have had D. Russell handling the ball at the end. Not because it was the right decision... but because it's simply the way the NBA works. Consider...

- D. Russell is set to make $91M over the next three seasons.
- He's already complained about ceding touches and control to a 10-year respected vet making $17M. And won.
- McLaughlin is a minimum contract guy in his 36th career game.
- There would be a mutiny this morning if Saunders put McLaughlin > Russell. Again, not because it's right. It's just the NBA way. For this one, blame the NBA... not the coach playing by those "rules."

----

More "that's how the NBA works" explanations:

- Edwards is the #1 overall pick. The Wolves traded up to #6 for Culver. Rosas drafted both.
- Imagine the heat Saunders gets from his boss (Rosas) if he doesn't play Rosas' three biggest acquisitions. If the Wolves lost while doing so... would Saunders already be out of a job?
- Every GM has sway over any coach. Imagine Rosas after all his deck furniture moving and his 34 year old head coach. Imagine that GM after the coach took his prized trade piece and prized two draft picks... and benched them all simultaneously.
- Meanwhile, as good as McDaniels looked... he had played 50 total NBA minutes before yesterday. Almost every one of them in garbage time. It's not shocking or egregious that a coach would think he hadn't earned his closing minutes yet.

----

We agree on what we would have liked to have seen. The players we wish were out there. But the NBA simply doesn't work that way. Especially if you're a young, green, unproven 34-year-old head coach. You simply don't have anywhere near the clout to even consider those things.

So instead you bite your tongue. You speak in generalities to the media about "ball stopping, immaturity and bad shot selection"... all while knowing that your boss is paying a guy $30M while he's about to cost you your dream job.

The NBA. It's Fantastic!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

To recap what Abe said: There is a direct correlation between how much runway you give a struggling or sub-optimal player and the amount of political and monetary capital invested in said player. With so much invested, you want to be absolutely sure you have given that player every opportunity to succeed. Thus Edwards keeps getting minutes and shots; DLO is in the game during crunch time; Culver is ahead of Nowell in the rotation, etc.

Coaches' decisions will always lag what fans see plain as day because of these factors and to maintain the locker room. I think this is a practical reality.

The real culprit are the crappy decisions made by the front office. And so far, Rosas seems much better at finding 9th and 10th men from the G-League than hitting on the big moves that can really move a franchise forward.

[FNG]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

Yet there are times where he's the only guy out there that can seemingly make a shot. Someone needs to put the ball in the basket. I guess the question in these LaVine/DLO discussions is what happens when you replace with a more well rounded 2-way player who is less potent as a scorer?

What if instead of DLO we had Monte Morris or DeJounte Murray as a starting PG - solid PGs that are not known for any one strength or weakness - would we be better, worse, or the same?

[Wolvesfan21]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

There are some max players who shouldn't be. Wiggins and DLO are two of them. I didn't completely hate the DLO trade last year, but I was also not in favor of it either. Hoping DLO would improve and return to his decent Brooklyn season. He hasn't shown enough yet this season of course to shown any improvement over last year. So my hopes are pretty slim he'll become a good player. Wiggins certainly wasn't though and both lack the mentality to take every possession and give 100% focus and energy. Heck I'd take 90%.

This is the second youngest team in the NBA. We have our only star player hurt, one of the only few guys with experience. You have to look at the TIMELINE and be realistic. Blame Rosas for sure if you want. Him trading a first for DLO was a bad move, KAT's going to get healthy and the Wolves will win too many games and not likely have their pick next season. So saying that, we shouldn't really expect to win when the roster is this young and inexperienced. We have undfrafted FA's playing significant time who do also happen to be better than some of our experienced players like Rubio and Ed Davis.

It's a poor roster and a young roster. I don't think Ryan is the issue as he has been given a 2-7 and told to win against pocket Aces. I'm not against finding a more proven coach either but it won't change much if anything. A young unproven roster is still going to lose when it's best player is out.