Playoffs thread

[Monster]

The Wizards play a lot like the wolves in that they are so dependent on Wall to have the ball in his hands and set players up. That's what we do with Rubio, a large amount of our possessions are Ricky dribbling to create a look for a guy and then a shot. Minimal ball movement after Ricky's pass. Gortat appears to be a decent and willing passer out of the PnR. But they don't have many skilled dribblers after Wall.
Only the few elite teams have multiple guys on the court at once who can create and initiate offense outside of the PG, and those elite teams have PGs who are effective without the ball. I think Tibs was trying to get Wig to do that all year, I agreed with his philosophy and still do even though the results weren't there.

Good points. I will and that I haven't seen Beal a lot the last couple years but I would think he is skilled enough to help Wall out at some point but all those injuries likely hurt his development in that area. Porter could develop a bit more too although I doubt he is a guy that's going to initiate offense but he might become a guy moving the ball. That group hasn't had a ton of time together really I don't think because of injury and Morris has only been there a little over a season. That stuff can take time and Wall is a high usage guy cause it makes sense to give him the ball.

[Lipoli390]

The Wizards play a lot like the wolves in that they are so dependent on Wall to have the ball in his hands and set players up. That's what we do with Rubio, a large amount of our possessions are Ricky dribbling to create a look for a guy and then a shot. Minimal ball movement after Ricky's pass. Gortat appears to be a decent and willing passer out of the PnR. But they don't have many skilled dribblers after Wall.
Only the few elite teams have multiple guys on the court at once who can create and initiate offense outside of the PG, and those elite teams have PGs who are effective without the ball. I think Tibs was trying to get Wig to do that all year, I agreed with his philosophy and still do even though the results weren't there.

Good observation. I suspect that Thibs knows the Wolves can't remain so dependent on our PG's ball-handling. That's why I'm sure he has kept pushing Ricky to shoot more. And that explains why Thibs was so emphatic in his post-season press conference about improvement in Ricky's 3-point shooting as Ricky's next step after substantially improving his 2-pointer. Thibs wants Ricky to be at least a legitimate threat without the ball. As you suggested, Thibs understanding of the need for multiple ball-handlers to be an elite team is part of why he kept putting the ball in Wiggins hands so often. The problem, in my view, is that I just don't see Wiggins ever developing the ball-handling or instincts to be the team's second ball-handler who can reliably and effectively initiate the offense. That's why I've always considered Zach so important to our offense. If you ask me who I'd rather see with the ball in crunch time, I'd answer KAT. I trust him more than Wiggins with the ball in big situations.

[kekgeek]

The Wizards play a lot like the wolves in that they are so dependent on Wall to have the ball in his hands and set players up. That's what we do with Rubio, a large amount of our possessions are Ricky dribbling to create a look for a guy and then a shot. Minimal ball movement after Ricky's pass. Gortat appears to be a decent and willing passer out of the PnR. But they don't have many skilled dribblers after Wall.
Only the few elite teams have multiple guys on the court at once who can create and initiate offense outside of the PG, and those elite teams have PGs who are effective without the ball. I think Tibs was trying to get Wig to do that all year, I agreed with his philosophy and still do even though the results weren't there.

Good observation. I suspect that Thibs knows the Wolves can't remain so dependent on our PG's ball-handling. That's why I'm sure he has kept pushing Ricky to shoot more. And that explains why Thibs was so emphatic in his post-season press conference about improvement in Ricky's 3-point shooting as Ricky's next step after substantially improving his 2-pointer. Thibs wants Ricky to be at least a legitimate threat without the ball. As you suggested, Thibs understanding of the need for multiple ball-handlers to be an elite team is part of why he kept putting the ball in Wiggins hands so often. The problem, in my view, is that I just don't see Wiggins ever developing the ball-handling or instincts to be the team's second ball-handler who can reliably and effectively initiate the offense. That's why I've always considered Zach so important to our offense. If you ask me who I'd rather see with the ball in crunch time, I'd answer KAT. I trust him more than Wiggins with the ball in big situations.

I don't disagree but I think some of the problem is that we have to find away to get KAT the ball in a scoring area. KAT can score from the wing but is not great at taking a guy off the dribble. Not a good pull up off the dribble shooter. Teams can do different things to deny KAT the ball in the post and then double if he gets it. It is harder to get KAT a quality look even though he is so good.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't know why we don't run more actions with KAT getting the ball at the elbow or free throw line extended. Love averaged nearly 5 assists per game being a secondary facilitator to Rubio. There is absolutely no reason KAT couldn't do the same. He averaged 2.7 assists per game last year, despite often showing selfish/tunnel vision tendencies. He absolutely has the skills to develop into an elite passing big man.

As for Wiggins and LaVine, we saw how Thibs used these two guys in the first third of the season. Rubio would bring the ball up and either Wiggins or LaVine would then receive it to initiate the half-court offense. Both have only rudimentary passing skills in the half court and eventually Thibs went away from them in favor of Rubio running more of the half court sets.

The best thing Wiggins could do this offseason is engage in more dynamic practice sessions by being the primary ball-handler in small-sided 3-on-3 sets, where he is forced to react to different defenses.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Good to see the Bulls and Clippers get ousted in the first round. It gives me hope that perhaps they might be willing to blow things up, putting players like Butler, Jordan, and Griffin in play. Even if we don't land one of those guys, it means some other team is using cap space and a roster spot to get them. That means there are less suitors for the likes of Milsap, etc. (still a tough get though....).

[Monster]

Good to see the Bulls and Clippers get ousted in the first round. It gives me hope that perhaps they might be willing to blow things up, putting players like Butler, Jordan, and Griffin in play. Even if we don't land one of those guys, it means some other team is using cap space and a roster spot to get them. That means there are less suitors for the likes of Milsap, etc. (still a tough get though....).

I think the Bulls might be less likely to blow things up. A lot of their young players came on toward the end of the season they could feel like they could grow organically now and guys seemed to buy into Hoiberg's style. If Wade sticks around they could just keep things together and go from their even keeping Rondo. Remeber they were up in their series before the Rondo injury. I'm not suggesting they are contenders or whatever but they may see themselves moving that direction of you get what I mean and they have a bunch of young talent. Whether or not it turns out to be any good...

The Clippers on the other hand are at a much more significant crossroads. They have 3 top players that can decide what they want to do. The Clippers may have no choice but to blow it up if one or more of those guys leave. That's certainly a team that could be a massive influence on what happens this summer.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The Wizards play a lot like the wolves in that they are so dependent on Wall to have the ball in his hands and set players up. That's what we do with Rubio, a large amount of our possessions are Ricky dribbling to create a look for a guy and then a shot. Minimal ball movement after Ricky's pass. Gortat appears to be a decent and willing passer out of the PnR. But they don't have many skilled dribblers after Wall.
Only the few elite teams have multiple guys on the court at once who can create and initiate offense outside of the PG, and those elite teams have PGs who are effective without the ball. I think Tibs was trying to get Wig to do that all year, I agreed with his philosophy and still do even though the results weren't there.

Good points. I will and that I haven't seen Beal a lot the last couple years but I would think he is skilled enough to help Wall out at some point but all those injuries likely hurt his development in that area. Porter could develop a bit more too although I doubt he is a guy that's going to initiate offense but he might become a guy moving the ball. That group hasn't had a ton of time together really I don't think because of injury and Morris has only been there a little over a season. That stuff can take time and Wall is a high usage guy cause it makes sense to give him the ball.

They started to give Beal more opportunities to create. It's part of his game. It's actually cool to see him have a career year AFTER signing a huge contract that many people didn't think he deserved.

Washington fans should be happy.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm happy the Clippers lost. As much as I dig PGs... I've never been a Chris Paul for all his other antics. He just seems like a prick based on nothing more than what I see on tv.

So what happens with that team?

We can pretty much assume Griffin is gone. The Clippers win about 60% of their games without him over the past few years. And the injury bug that continues to derail seasons can't be ignored. OKC? Boston? Miami?

I think Paul might resign. After all, as noted, he and Deeandre Jordan and a couple of shooters can win about 50 games. If he does move on... what about San Antonio? Would he be willing to take a deep paycut to join the Spurs culture and chase championships with Leonard for the next 3 or 4 years? Pop has shown he has a knack for extending careers.

I don't know where Reddick goes. He played poorly for most of the series. But I think he's still a solid player. I also think the Clippers dysfunction might have weighed on him more than anybody else... based on quotes he was making throughout the season.

[Lipoli390]

Good to see the Bulls and Clippers get ousted in the first round. It gives me hope that perhaps they might be willing to blow things up, putting players like Butler, Jordan, and Griffin in play. Even if we don't land one of those guys, it means some other team is using cap space and a roster spot to get them. That means there are less suitors for the likes of Milsap, etc. (still a tough get though....).

I agree, Q. I agree with Monster that the Bulls are less likely to blow things up, but both will have to consider it. The Clippers front office will have less control over the situation because so many of their key guys - Paul, Griffin, Redick - are unrestricted free agents.

When it comes to the Bulls, I can certainly see the Wolves having discussions about deals for Jimmy Butler. The Bulls price would likely be no less than at least one of the following: KAT, Wiggins, LaVine or our lottery pick, although I'm not sure Zach coming off his ACL surgery would be enough for the Bulls. No way Thibs would trade KAT or Wiggins for Jimmy. Question is whether he would, or should, trade Zach or our lottery pick for Jimmy. I'd consider trading either one, but I'd want the Bull's first round pick this year or next in return and I doubt the Bulls would go for that. I like Butler, but until this past season he had a hard time staying healthy, rarely playing more than 65 games in a season.

As for the Clippers, Chris Paul wouldn't sign with us. I don't see Griffin signing here and I wouldn't want him since he's an injury waiting to happen. It will be interesting to see what team offers him a max deal because I wouldn't. You just can't count on him over the course of a 4-year deal. Redick is the only one in the bunch who might sign here, but I'm not sure he'd be worth the $17 million per year he's likely to get. I think D'Andre Jordan would be a great fit here, but I don't know what it would take to get him. If it's just our lottery pick, then I'm interested, although I'd hate to help a Conference rival rebuild. I generally don't like major deals with Western Conference teams.

I like your thinking about the availability of Paul and Griffin on the FA market enhancing our chances of landing Paul Millsap, even thought the odds would still be long.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Good to see the Bulls and Clippers get ousted in the first round. It gives me hope that perhaps they might be willing to blow things up, putting players like Butler, Jordan, and Griffin in play. Even if we don't land one of those guys, it means some other team is using cap space and a roster spot to get them. That means there are less suitors for the likes of Milsap, etc. (still a tough get though....).

I agree, Q. I agree with Monster that the Bulls are less likely to blow things up, but both will have to consider it. The Clippers front office will have less control over the situation because so many of their key guys - Paul, Griffin, Redick - are unrestricted free agents.

When it comes to the Bulls, I can certainly see the Wolves having discussions about deals for Jimmy Butler. The Bulls price would likely be no less than at least one of the following: KAT, Wiggins, LaVine or our lottery pick, although I'm not sure Zach coming off his ACL surgery would be enough for the Bulls. No way Thibs would trade KAT or Wiggins for Jimmy. Question is whether he would, or should, trade Zach or our lottery pick for Jimmy. I'd consider trading either one, but I'd want the Bull's first round pick this year or next in return and I doubt the Bulls would go for that. I like Butler, but until this past season he had a hard time staying healthy, rarely playing more than 65 games in a season.

As for the Clippers, Chris Paul wouldn't sign with us. I don't see Griffin signing here and I wouldn't want him since he's an injury waiting to happen. It will be interesting to see what team offers him a max deal because I wouldn't. You just can't count on him over the course of a 4-year deal. Redick is the only one in the bunch who might sign here, but I'm not sure he'd be worth the $17 million per year he's likely to get. I think D'Andre Jordan would be a great fit here, but I don't know what it would take to get him. If it's just our lottery pick, then I'm interested, although I'd hate to help a Conference rival rebuild. I generally don't like major deals with Western Conference teams.

I like your thinking about the availability of Paul and Griffin on the FA market enhancing our chances of landing Paul Millsap, even thought the odds would still be long.

LaVine + Wolves #1 pick isn't enough to get the Bulls to pick up the phone.



[Note: But if the Wolves win the lottery... the Bulls might be in play.]