Minnesota Sports Forum

Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

This article states that the Wolves most likely won't deal Rubio now, but will in the offseason. The Bucks and Knicks were two teams linked to him.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

100% agree

1 Stephen Curry GS 50 33.8 9.07 1.48 10.55 15.62
2 Russell Westbrook OKC 54 34.3 8.03 1.23 9.26 14.77
3 Kyle Lowry TOR 52 36.8 5.56 1.70 7.26 12.29
4 Chris Paul LAC 48 33.0 5.87 1.21 7.08 10.26
5 Ricky Rubio MIN 48 30.3 2.36 2.36 4.72 7.19
6 John Wall WSH 51 36.1 2.99 0.38 3.37 7.82
7 Eric Bledsoe PHX 31 34.2 2.27 0.58 2.85 4.11
8 Kemba Walker CHA 52 35.8 2.45 0.21 2.66 6.75
9 Damian Lillard POR 47 36.1 4.89 -2.85 2.04 5.58
10 Mike Conley MEM 47 31.5 3.55 -1.54 2.01 4.55
11 Reggie Jackson DET 53 31.0 4.24 -2.25 1.99 5.27
12 Isaiah Thomas BOS 55 32.5 4.04 -2.08 1.96 5.96
13 Patty Mills SA 53 20.2 2.26 -0.64 1.62 3.26
14 Jrue Holiday NO 47 26.1 2.65 -1.32 1.33 3.51
15 Dennis Schroder ATL 53 20.7 1.85 -0.64 1.21 2.98
16 Matthew Dellavedova CLE 46 26.3 1.66 -0.49 1.17 3.19
17 George Hill IND 46 35.2 0.36 0.19 0.55 3.78
18 Ronnie Price PHX 34 14.8 -0.65 1.05 0.40 1.14
19 Marcus Smart BOS 34 27.1 -0.72 1.08 0.36 2.16
20 Tony Parker SA 48 26.7 0.83 -0.50 0.33 2.78
21 Michael Carter-Williams MIL 49 30.4 -0.42 0.75 0.33 3.21
22 Rajon Rondo SAC 51 35.1 0.82 -0.55 0.27 4.06
23 Patrick Beverley HOU 44 26.7 -0.15 0.40 0.25 2.49
24 Goran Dragic MIA 44 32.3 0.32 -0.10 0.22 2.93
25 Deron Williams DAL 46 32.1 -0.06 -0.35 -0.41 2.43
26 Kyrie Irving CLE 26 29.8 2.65 -3.22 -0.57 1.21

TeamRicky wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

100% agree

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

100% agree

Irving two tiers above Ricky? Irving is absolutely horrible on defense and he's ranked 26th among point guards on RPM and his defense ranks 75 overall in RPM to Rubio's 1st. I also dont' get Thomas in a tier above Ricky. I actually like Thomas for what he can do, but he had virtually no trade value because teams don't want to be run by a 5"9 guy.

Are you simply quoting the wrong posts at this point?

I can't figure out any other way you're misrepresenting my takes this badly... time after time.

You have 5 elite and semi-elite point guards: Curry, Westbrook & Paul, then Wall & Lowry. Then the next 5 to 7 guys are roughly equal value and Ricky is in that tier. Ricky may be the youngest and soon cheapest of this next tier.

TeamRicky wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

100% agree

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line:

There are a lot of capable PGs in the league. There's minimal variance between them after you get past the elite tier... mostly based on personal preference.

Want a scoring PG? Here's Isiah Thomas. But how does he defend? Here's Ricky Rubio for you. But how does he create/shoot? Here's Kyrie Irving. Or, Lowry. Or, Teague. Or Jackson. Et al.

100% agree

Irving two tiers above Ricky? Irving is absolutely horrible on defense and he's ranked 26th among point guards on RPM and his defense ranks 75 overall in RPM to Rubio's 1st. I also dont' get Thomas in a tier above Ricky. I actually like Thomas for what he can do, but he had virtually no trade value because teams don't want to be run by a 5"9 guy.

Irving missed like 2-3 months of this season. Of course his stats are behind everyone else.

kekgeek1 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Camden wrote:I like Conley, but you're wildly overrating him, and I didn't think that was possible to do because for a long time I thought of him as an underrated player. He's not sniffing top-five at his position, though, nor does he alone make this team a playoff contender. That's just not reality.

Not your reality I get it. Hardly wild at all. Debateable differences between him and Irving, Bledsoe, Lowry and Thomas (any of whom who sit in your 5 spot I assume?) But none of those 4 are an open and shut better basketball player than Conley by any stretch of the imagination. We all can't live in your reality though.

Try Curry, Westbrook, Wall, Lillard and Paul. That is the top-five. And I do think the other four I listed are better than Conley, but even those guys aren't in the same tier that those five are in. Those are your MVP type guys.

I think lowery and Irving are better (even though I think Irving is overrated). But then I think there is a drop off. So I have Conley 8 but don't think there is much difference between 8 and 13.

I think Westbrook, curry, paul are tier 1
Wall, Lillard, Lowry are tier 2
Irving tier 3
Conley, Thomas tier 4
Then Rubio, Teague, reggie Jackson are tier 5.

I think Bledsoe is extremely overrated

I am probably missing people also (think dragic, holiday, rondo, Parker (at this point of his career) are all lower on my list)

Abe this is the post I intended to respond to with the following comment:

"Irving two tiers above Ricky? Irving is absolutely horrible on defense and he's ranked 26th among point guards on RPM and his defense ranks 75 overall in RPM to Rubio's 1st. I also dont' get Thomas in a tier above Ricky. I actually like Thomas for what he can do, but he had virtually no trade value because teams don't want to be run by a 5"9 guy."

OK. Makes more sense.

And it leads to this... so Thomas and Lillard and Lowry and Conley and Teague and Irving and Jackson are all playing for .500 teams or better. Some of those teams are considered overachievers.

So just how bad is the rest of the Wolves roster that the Wolves are on pace for only 25 wins (fewer than all of those guys have already)? Or that the team has never been .500 by season's end with Rubio? Or is it all Mitchell's fault?

In all honesty, I don't know. The same questions were asked about Kevin Love a few years ago when he was the only guy in the top 10 for Win Shares in more than 20 seasons from a losing team... and he did it repeatedly... once for a team that lost 65 games which is such an anomaly that I think it knocked basketballreference.com offline for a spell.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:OK. Makes more sense.

And it leads to this... so Thomas and Lillard and Lowry and Conley and Teague and Irving and Jackson are all playing for .500 teams or better. Some of those teams are considered overachievers.

So just how bad is the rest of the Wolves roster that the Wolves are on pace for only 25 wins (fewer than all of those guys have already)? Or that the team has never been .500 by season's end with Rubio? Or is it all Mitchell's fault?

In all honesty, I don't know. The same questions were asked about Kevin Love a few years ago when he was the only guy in the top 10 for Win Shares in more than 20 seasons from a losing team... and he did it repeatedly... once for a team that lost 65 games which is such an anomaly that I think it knocked basketballreference.com offline for a spell.

Actually quite bad. Of the guys logging extended minutes, only KAT and Rubio are guys that would be positive rotation players on most playoff teams. LaVine and Wiggins are works in progress. Dieng still commits too many turnovers. We arguably have the worst bench in the league. Having said that, I love our core based on potential and expected improvement, not on current results.