Minnesota Sports Forum

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

I also saw a Celtics team that had

Porzingis
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Holiday
White
Pritchard

and STILL somehow found time to play Hauser, Kornet,Tillman to where if their number was called (and it was called) they'd be ready.

When guys are out for whatever reason, we need to learn whether in a pinch, we can use guys at the end of our bench because over 82+ games, we may need them too. If it's an unwillingness to try, that's on Finch. If the talent sucks, that's on Connelly. We need to know.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

I also saw a Celtics team that had

Porzingis
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Holiday
White
Pritchard

and STILL somehow found time to play Hauser, Kornet,Tillman to where if their number was called (and it was called) they'd be ready.

When guys are out for whatever reason, we need to learn whether in a pinch, we can use guys at the end of our bench because over 82+ games, we may need them too. If it's an unwillingness to try, that's on Finch. If the talent sucks, that's on Connelly. We need to know.

Yep there are literally dozens of players across the league that are legit contributors and would play in the playoffs that were end of roster guys. EVERY FUCKING ROSTER SPOT MATTERS. You simply never know when a guy is gonna end up being a key player for your roster or someone else's. NAZ REID is a guy on the Wolves roster that was a 2nd round pick signed to a 2 way contract that is now a 6th man of the year winner and has gotten better every year in the league. Sam Hauser undrafted and played in all the Celtics playoff game. Saying we should not be concerned with every roster spot is simply short sighted.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

I also saw a Celtics team that had

Porzingis
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Holiday
White
Pritchard

and STILL somehow found time to play Hauser, Kornet,Tillman to where if their number was called (and it was called) they'd be ready.

When guys are out for whatever reason, we need to learn whether in a pinch, we can use guys at the end of our bench because over 82+ games, we may need them too. If it's an unwillingness to try, that's on Finch. If the talent sucks, that's on Connelly. We need to know.

I think it's pretty obvious Moore was a bust and shouldn't be in the league. The Wolves are a defensive team first, and Miller was atrocious on defense in the G League. Minott, I've always kind of liked but he hasn't shown anything, he didn't show anything in college either averaging just 14.3 minutes per game off the bench. A healthy contender isn't going to give time to someone unless they have a skill that works for the varsity team. I think Connelly has just swung and missed the past few drafts, with Clark tbd.

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

I also saw a Celtics team that had

Porzingis
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Holiday
White
Pritchard

and STILL somehow found time to play Hauser, Kornet,Tillman to where if their number was called (and it was called) they'd be ready.

When guys are out for whatever reason, we need to learn whether in a pinch, we can use guys at the end of our bench because over 82+ games, we may need them too. If it's an unwillingness to try, that's on Finch. If the talent sucks, that's on Connelly. We need to know.

While I agree with the sentiment, that's not a fair comparison. All those guys have more experience and are 4 or 5 years older than Minott or Miller. And Boston had already established themselves as elite, where as the Wolves were trying to prove to the league, and to themselves, that they belong in those ranks as well.

I'll withhold judgement on this narrative until we see next season play out.

Drafting for now/need is often a bad strategy although when you are later in the draft (drafting for a player than can help now) does make more sense than in the top 20 depending on the draft year. The reality is that the Wolves need to keep building their talent by any means available.

Let's say they decide Moore isn't it or is no better than a guy they can bring in on a 2-way deal like they did with Nix. They could cut Moore loose and sign a vet likely to be able to help immediately with the vet min. There are a variety of ways to help now that don't include the draft. I'm not against taking a guy that can play now but I'm interested in taking the best player they can get. We have also seen guys that were older and win now guys turn into excellent players like Brogdon or Desmond Bane. Brunson is another supposedly lower upside guy.

Now let's talk about what Connelly has done in the past. He has been very willing to take swings on on high upside guys that have slid especially if there was an injury concern. He did just that last year with Clark and we will see if it pays off. He hasn't always gone for the home run though either. Morris was an underappreciated guy that's had a nice NBA career. He didn't pick Moore and as high upside guy but hopefully as a high end complimentary player. So far that's looked bad and I'll own that one as Moore was the guy I wanted although I did absolutely understand he had flaws. What we also know is Connelly is absolutely willing to make deals in the draft and otherwise. It would not shock me to see him make a trade for a vet player around the draft or this offseason. He might even deal a young player as a part of that deal or for future picks. Connelly hasn't nailed all his moves but he has a track record of making some savvy deals and one thing I like about him is he isn't a guy that's absolutely beholden to any player. The guy has traded Vanderbilt and Beasley twice and has moved on from plenty of other youngers guys to make deals happen. I think we could see a fairly significant move this off-season. I haven't looked at what could happen but if there are any reasonable viable options it makes sense that it could happen.

I'm looking forward to this draft and off-season. The Wolves are in a tricky but good place and Connelly has done some wise moves to put the Wolves where they are. I'm getting more excited about this draft and as we know any meh draft there can be some pretty good players that come from it and often those players are well outside the top 10. Thanks for all the discussion to help be getting going on this next step.

Side note: is anyone playing on going to Vegas for Summer league this year?

WildWolf2813 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:48 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:10 pm Guys bear with me on this rant. Here we are again dissecting the end of our bench. Unless you have some great prospects down there that just need a chance, it really doesn't matter. The chances of Moore and Minott becoming key pieces on a contender are remote at best. Miller might have some potential, time will tell. And regarding Clark, who knows? My point is we have a top 7 or 8 who are pretty damn good, and that's all that matters come playoff time. You all know it's a star driven league. You're best 3 or 4 players matter the most, and then 5-8 determine whether you have the requisite depth needed to contend. If even one of these end of the roster players can develop and make an impact, consider it gravy. And I don't see anyone we keep talking about with much promise at all. I'll take that back, Garza might have a decent future in the league. But it may or may not be with the home team. Chances are the player(s) we acquire during the draft will be the ones to focus on going forward. Hopefully TC can hit a home-run at 27, it's a huge pick for us. We're finally at the spot we've always fantasized getting to. It's time to go for the chip. If we don't get at least to the conference finals, then it's time to look at major changes. But let's not focus on developing Josh Minott this season, it means next to nothing.

I also saw a Celtics team that had

Porzingis
Horford
Tatum
Brown
Holiday
White
Pritchard

and STILL somehow found time to play Hauser, Kornet,Tillman to where if their number was called (and it was called) they'd be ready.

When guys are out for whatever reason, we need to learn whether in a pinch, we can use guys at the end of our bench because over 82+ games, we may need them too. If it's an unwillingness to try, that's on Finch. If the talent sucks, that's on Connelly. We need to know.

Don't forget we were able to call on these guys for stretches and they were ready:

JMac
Morris
Garza
Warren

Notice I'm 12 deep with our top 8 and these guys. Also notice I didn't have to mention Minott, Miller, Clark, or Nix.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:34 pm EVERY FUCKING ROSTER SPOT MATTERS. Saying we should not be concerned with every roster spot is simply short sighted.

They don't matter one iota if those spots aren't filled with legit NBA players. If you have to put a guy out there who should be in the G league you're in big trouble. NBA rosters used to be limited to 12 players, and that's when there were less teams. Those spots #13 - #15, which you spend a lot of time on, are largely irrelevant. Not one of our top 8, not even NAZ or NAW rose up from the last 3 spots on the roster.

I haven't nerded out on the draft like prior seasons so I haven't been in deep dive mode, so my takes are a little less thought out than in prior years. I do like Tyler Kolek if he's there at 27. I also like KJ Simpson at 37 but like Kolek, he is undersized. I think we can address backup point guard in free agency, so I'm interested in the BPA. I think we need a backup center who can rim protect as when Rudy sat, our interior defense was exploited. My favorite big guys that could be post-lottery are: Zach Edey, Daron Holmes and N'Faly Dante (at 37). I also like Baylor Scheierman as a possibility at 27. I like Mogbo's upside and Enrique Freeman looks solid and so both might be in mix at 37.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:24 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 4:34 pm EVERY FUCKING ROSTER SPOT MATTERS. Saying we should not be concerned with every roster spot is simply short sighted.

They don't matter one iota if those spots aren't filled with legit NBA players. If you have to put a guy out there who should be in the G league you're in big trouble. NBA rosters used to be limited to 12 players, and that's when there were less teams. Those spots #13 - #15, which you spend a lot of time on, are largely irrelevant. Not one of our top 8, not even NAZ or NAW rose up from the last 3 spots on the roster.

Who on this board or in the NBA is trying to fill those spots with guys that aren’t NBA players? Obviously if guys can’t play it doesn’t matter. Hell teams sometimes sign guys that end up being no good that they planned to be in the rotation. Shake Milton is one of those guys just last season.

Naz Reid was signed as a 2-way undrafted player. He earned his way into more than that. He started out on the Wolves without an NBA deal so you are incorrect there.

The NBA is deeper with talent and more ways to develop it than ever before. Of course the odds are again most of these guys being playoff contributors but IMO it’s a head scratching take to have watched the league as much as I assume you have and say those spots are simply not worth talking about. It’s not just about this season either. Adding a player this offseason that ends up helping 2 or 3 seasons from now (or even be a minor trade chip) could actually matter. It’s worth asking if Naz Reid as a rookie would have gotten any meaningful minutes on a good team like the Wolves?

Finally and then I’m moving on: The regular season matters. At times you need some depth guys to keep things rolling during the regular season due to injuries etc. one of the big issues with the wolves for years was they had such a lack of depth and when they had to turn to other guys they just weren’t good enough or back to your earlier point they were either not NBA players or very fringe guys. Those of us that are looking at the edges of the roster are looking for legit NBA (or potential) NBA guys at those spots. We also know fully that some guys aren’t going to work out just like most of us know some free agents aren’t going to pan out either like Shake Milton last season was a Jake Cave like spectacular swing and miss. Speaking of the Twins legend I see he is playing for the Rockies. lol