Around the League 2022-23

[Lipoli390]

We're going to learn a lot about the Wolves in the 3rd quarter tonight. The Wolves should come out on fire after a half time when I would hope they were pissed as hell about their terrible 2nd quarter effort. We'll see. If they dominate the 3rd quarter and win the game that will be a big positive in my view. If they come out flat in the 3rd and lose, then it will further feed my pessimism about this team.

[FNG]

I've read a few articles in the past week about the new big rivalry in the NBA- the Suns and the Pelicans. They had a terrific playoff series last season despite Zion being out, and now are my pick to be the two teams in the Western finals this year. They are both playing well and don't like each other very much, so this could be a really entertaining series. Zion's windmill dunk at the buzzer set off a near-brawl last week (Zion handled the situation in a very mature way post-game). Next Saturday's game in Phoenix could be fun to watch.

[Q-is-here]

The much fawned over DeJounte Murray trade hasn't exactly been working out the way Atlanta had hoped. They are 14-14 in an Eastern Conference that is overall weaker than the West. Haven't paid attention to them much, so don't know what's happening there. They are an example of a supposedly up and coming team two seasons ago to one that has stagnated despite taking a big swing with Murray.

[Lipoli390]

The much fawned over DeJounte Murray trade hasn't exactly been working out the way Atlanta had hoped. They are 14-14 in an Eastern Conference that is overall weaker than the West. Haven't paid attention to them much, so don't know what's happening there. They are an example of a supposedly up and coming team two seasons ago to one that has stagnated despite taking a big swing with Murray.

Q - I'm not sure I'd say Murray has been fawned over - certainly not by Wolves fans. I think Murray is a tremendous player. He averaged over 20 points and a near triple double last season. Those stats are even more impressive when you overlay his well-known defensive prowess. Nevertheless, I remember posting that I did NOT want the Wolves to trade for hm back when we first heard rumors that the Wolves were thinking of dealing for Murray and that it would take at least three 1st round picks to get him. I thought that was too much draft capital and I wanted to roll with the guys we had as they were coming off a very good season with a strong finish.

But when I saw what we gave up for Gobert in comparison to what Atlanta gave up for Murray, I posted that we should have traded for Murray given TC's willingness to give up so many assets. That's not fawning over Murray and I don't recall anyone else on this board fawning over him. Yet, I would much prefer having Murray in exchange for a package similar to what the Hawks gave up to get him -- (1) 2023 1st round pick top 16 protected, (2) 2025 unprotected 1st, (3) 2027 unprotected first, and (4) Gallo -- than having Gobert for the package the Wolves gave up to get him. Given what Atlanta gave up, it's likely the Wolves could have gotten Murray while retaining Vando, Beverley, Beasley, Kessler and their 2029 first. And they might have been able to have at least some protection on their 2023 pick. It would have solved the DLO issue and transformed our terrible perimeter defense without unduly tying up cap space. In addition, Murray's age would have aligned much better with Ant, Jaden, Nowell and even KAT.

Individually, Murray is having a terrific season. He's averaging nearly 21 points per game, hitting 45.2% of his FG attempts and 36.6% of his threes. He's also averaging 6.2 assists and 5.4 rebounds, which would be a welcome addition to a Wolves team that routinely gets out-rebounded. With Murray, the Hawks are ranked #2 in team offense and #15 in team defense - which compares favorably to the Wolves #8 ranking on offense and #20 on defense.

Have Murray's stats propelled the Hawks into title contention? Obviously not. The Hawks were 13-11 before Murray went down with his sprained ankle. That's about where they were last season when they finished 4 games over .500. So Murray clearly hasn't improved the team's winning percentage. The Wolves currently sit at 1 game under .500 after finishing 10 games over last season. In that sense, the Wolves situation seems pretty similar to the Hawks. Then again, I'll repeat my mantra -- it's about fit. I thought it was odd to pair Murray with Young since they're both PGs in my view. Pairing him with Edwards would have, I believe, brought out the best in both. It would have created a dynamic backcourt on both sides of the ball. Of course, there's no way to know for sure. But the key for me is that the Wolves could have had Murray while retaining valuable player assets, including Beverley, Vando, Beasley and Kessler. Meanwhile, Murray's contract would have allowed the Wolves far more salary flexibility and trading for him rather than Gobert would have solved the DLO dilemma. There were plenty of FA bigs on the market and less costly trade targets who could have strengthened the team's interior defense and rebounding. The team would already be greatly improved in both areas based on Murray's high level rebounding and perimeter defense.

Again, I wouldn't have been inclined to give up three future draft picks for Murray last summer and I said so at the time. But Murray would have been far less expensive to get, and in my view, a much better fit for this team than Gobert. If that's fawning, then so be it. :)

[Lipoli390]

Looks like the Jazz are for real. They beat the Pelicans tonight by 20 points. Beasley had 21 points on 5-12 shooting from behind the arc and added 4 assists. Vanderbilt had 18 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal and 1 block. Kessler had 16 rebounds and 3 blocks in only 23 minutes. As a team, the Jazz held the Pelicans to 100 points.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Individually, Murray is having a terrific season. He's averaging nearly 21 points per game, hitting 45.2% of his FG attempts and 36.6% of his threes. He's also averaging 6.2 assists and 5.4 rebounds, which would be a welcome addition to a Wolves team that routinely gets out-rebounded. With Murray, the Hawks are ranked #2 in team offense and #15 in team defense - which compares favorably to the Wolves #8 ranking on offense and #20 on defense.

Have Murray's stats propelled the Hawks into title contention? Obviously not. The Hawks were 13-11 before Murray went down with his sprained ankle. That's about where they were last season when they finished 4 games over .500. So Murray clearly hasn't improved the team's winning percentage. The Wolves currently sit at 1 game under .500 after finishing 10 games over last season. In that sense, the Wolves situation seems pretty similar to the Hawks. Then again, I'll repeat my mantra -- it's about fit. I thought it was odd to pair Murray with Young since they're both PGs in my view. Pairing him with Edwards would have, I believe, brought out the best in both. It would have created a dynamic backcourt on both sides of the ball. Of course, there's no way to know for sure. But the key for me is that the Wolves could have had Murray while retaining valuable player assets, including Beverley, Vando, Beasley and Kessler. Meanwhile, Murray's contract would have allowed the Wolves far more salary flexibility and trading for him rather than Gobert would have solved the DLO dilemma. There were plenty of FA bigs on the market and less costly trade targets who could have strengthened the team's interior defense and rebounding. The team would already be greatly improved in both areas based on Murray's high level rebounding and perimeter defense.

Again, I wouldn't have been inclined to give up three future draft picks for Murray last summer and I said so at the time. But Murray would have been far less expensive to get, and in my view, a much better fit for this team than Gobert. If that's fawning, then so be it. :)

Lip... can't dispute much in your take. I agree with much/most of it.

But where did you get the team rankings (in bold).
I see the Wolves ranked #18 on offense and #20 on defense. And the Hawks #23 on offense and #14 on defense.

As for the Hawks, there have been many rumblings about Trae Young. He's currently shooting 28.7% behind the arc on 7+ 3fga. His usage remains at 34%. Meanwhile, Murray's is below 26%. As you noted... fits matter. I don't think Murray and Young are a great fit... likewise... there are very real concerns about the Towns and Gobert pairing.

I can easily see a world where the Wolves would be better off with the lesser player.

[Lipoli390]

Individually, Murray is having a terrific season. He's averaging nearly 21 points per game, hitting 45.2% of his FG attempts and 36.6% of his threes. He's also averaging 6.2 assists and 5.4 rebounds, which would be a welcome addition to a Wolves team that routinely gets out-rebounded. With Murray, the Hawks are ranked #2 in team offense and #15 in team defense - which compares favorably to the Wolves #8 ranking on offense and #20 on defense.

Have Murray's stats propelled the Hawks into title contention? Obviously not. The Hawks were 13-11 before Murray went down with his sprained ankle. That's about where they were last season when they finished 4 games over .500. So Murray clearly hasn't improved the team's winning percentage. The Wolves currently sit at 1 game under .500 after finishing 10 games over last season. In that sense, the Wolves situation seems pretty similar to the Hawks. Then again, I'll repeat my mantra -- it's about fit. I thought it was odd to pair Murray with Young since they're both PGs in my view. Pairing him with Edwards would have, I believe, brought out the best in both. It would have created a dynamic backcourt on both sides of the ball. Of course, there's no way to know for sure. But the key for me is that the Wolves could have had Murray while retaining valuable player assets, including Beverley, Vando, Beasley and Kessler. Meanwhile, Murray's contract would have allowed the Wolves far more salary flexibility and trading for him rather than Gobert would have solved the DLO dilemma. There were plenty of FA bigs on the market and less costly trade targets who could have strengthened the team's interior defense and rebounding. The team would already be greatly improved in both areas based on Murray's high level rebounding and perimeter defense.

Again, I wouldn't have been inclined to give up three future draft picks for Murray last summer and I said so at the time. But Murray would have been far less expensive to get, and in my view, a much better fit for this team than Gobert. If that's fawning, then so be it. :)

Lip... can't dispute much in your take. I agree with much/most of it.

But where did you get the team rankings (in bold).
I see the Wolves ranked #18 on offense and #20 on defense. And the Hawks #23 on offense and #14 on defense.

As for the Hawks, there have been many rumblings about Trae Young. He's currently shooting 28.7% behind the arc on 7+ 3fga. His usage remains at 34%. Meanwhile, Murray's is below 26%. As you noted... fits matter. I don't think Murray and Young are a great fit... likewise... there are very real concerns about the Towns and Gobert pairing.

I can easily see a world where the Wolves would be better off with the lesser player.

I screwed up on the stats -- didn't realize I was looking at last season's team stats. :) The Hawks have improved defensively from #26 last season to #14 this season. But they've fallen from #2 on offense to #23. Trae Young so far is having a really bad season for him.

[BloopOracle]

Wizards have lost 11 of 12, guess who their one win came against lol

[AbeVigodaLive]

Wizards have lost 11 of 12, guess who their one win came against lol

Yeah, but the Wizards were only up 24 in the 2nd quarter... that game coulda gone either way. :|

[Lipoli390]

Anthony Davis reportedly out for at least one month with a foot injury. As Bud Grant used to say, "it's always the same guys in the training room." He reference was to the guys rehabbing injuries. Some players are simply more durable than others. Some are highly durable - like MJ and LeBron over the span of their long careers. Others are notoriously on the opposite end of the durability spectrum. Anthony Davis is one of those players at the end of the spectrum marked fragile. The Lakers had a shot at making the playoffs this season the way AD has been playing. They're only 1.5 games behind the Wolves. But a month without AD will make it tough for them.