Minnesota Sports Forum

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:Meh. I've never been in love with PER. It ignores a lot of the game, but it's just one of many stats that can be used to illustrate a point. If 15.0 is league average, then Noel's been that or better both seasons he's been in the league, which isn't necessarily easy when you're a young player, especially in the front court.

Also, defense has always been a team concept. If PER split is your way to determine whether or not a player is good or not, more power to you. It's ignoring the part where you watch the games, but again, it's hard to judge guys on bad teams.

I realize he's on his third year of his contract. That doesn't scare me. Not getting a good player out of this first round pick does scare me because that's super possible and we need to stop wasting assets (1st rounder from Miami or Thaddeus Young; future first rounder in Adreian Payne deal). This class is really difficult to be confident in. And as always, fans seem to overrate the value of their pick. Moving the pick for a young player that's been productive in his two seasons is an attractive option, one I'd feel good about.

Side question: Would you rather pay big money to a 23-year old Noel or a 27-year old Dieng?

I guess we'll have to agree-to-disagree on Noel.

And like I said, the solution to not liking the #5 pick is trading down, not giving it away. I am not confident in this class either, but I think for different reasons. I don't think Simmons can shoot from the outside well enough, and I think Hield is just too small. Just because it worked for Curry doesn't mean it works for everyone.

"27 year old Dieng"? When I read that, I almost wet myself. How can he only be 27? Did he start at Duke when he was 14? Is he the Sheldon Cooper of the NBA? Then I pulled up his profile and read where he is 31 and decided that it was a hypothetical that would require much time to research.

......Actually, less time than I thought. A slight edge to Dieng. He played a lot of minutes his 27th year (more than Noel last year) almost exclusively at the 3. His split at the 3 was plus 1.3. Yes, he would be older and also in a contract year, but he had history of getting it done. So SLIGHT edge. But still not excited about trading a #5 pick for one year of a player.

TeamRicky wrote:My favorite single stat is RPM and based on RPM, Noel is average at best (64th out of 100). He's very good defensively but he's very poor offensively. I think Noel is a good player and perhaps can improve offensively, but I don't give up #5 for him without getting at least a first rounder back, preferably two if we add Bazz to the trade.

Alternatively we trade 5 and Bazz for Noel, Covington and 24.

TeamRicky wrote:My favorite single stat is RPM and based on RPM, Noel is average at best (64th out of 100). He's very good defensively but he's very poor offensively. I think Noel is a good player and perhaps can improve offensively, but I don't give up #5 for him without getting at least a first rounder back, preferably two if we add Bazz to the trade.

Alternatively we trade 5 and Bazz for Noel, Covington and 24.

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:Meh. I've never been in love with PER. It ignores a lot of the game, but it's just one of many stats that can be used to illustrate a point. If 15.0 is league average, then Noel's been that or better both seasons he's been in the league, which isn't necessarily easy when you're a young player, especially in the front court.

Also, defense has always been a team concept. If PER split is your way to determine whether or not a player is good or not, more power to you. It's ignoring the part where you watch the games, but again, it's hard to judge guys on bad teams.

I realize he's on his third year of his contract. That doesn't scare me. Not getting a good player out of this first round pick does scare me because that's super possible and we need to stop wasting assets (1st rounder from Miami or Thaddeus Young; future first rounder in Adreian Payne deal). This class is really difficult to be confident in. And as always, fans seem to overrate the value of their pick. Moving the pick for a young player that's been productive in his two seasons is an attractive option, one I'd feel good about.

Side question: Would you rather pay big money to a 23-year old Noel or a 27-year old Dieng?

I guess we'll have to agree-to-disagree on Noel.

And like I said, the solution to not liking the #5 pick is trading down, not giving it away. I am not confident in this class either, but I think for different reasons. I don't think Simmons can shoot from the outside well enough, and I think Hield is just too small. Just because it worked for Curry doesn't mean it works for everyone.

"27 year old Dieng"? When I read that, I almost wet myself. How can he only be 27? Did he start at Duke when he was 14? Is he the Sheldon Cooper of the NBA? Then I pulled up his profile and read where he is 31 and decided that it was a hypothetical that would require much time to research.

......Actually, less time than I thought. A slight edge to Dieng. He played a lot of minutes his 27th year (more than Noel last year) almost exclusively at the 3. His split at the 3 was plus 1.3. Yes, he would be older and also in a contract year, but he had history of getting it done. So SLIGHT edge. But still not excited about trading a #5 pick for one year of a player.

It was hypothetical, but you got mixed up. I'm asking would you rather pay a 23-year old Nerlens Noel who took a leap as a player in his third season under an elite coach or pay a 27-year old Gorgui Dieng who kind of is what he is at his point -- very solid, but unspectacular? I'm not talking about Luol Deng in this. Dieng, not Deng.

And I'm not looking to trade the No. 5 pick for one year of anyone. Noel would be a piece for the now and the future. He just turned 22-years old in April. That's younger than both Buddy Hield and Kris Dunn.

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:Meh. I've never been in love with PER. It ignores a lot of the game, but it's just one of many stats that can be used to illustrate a point. If 15.0 is league average, then Noel's been that or better both seasons he's been in the league, which isn't necessarily easy when you're a young player, especially in the front court.

Also, defense has always been a team concept. If PER split is your way to determine whether or not a player is good or not, more power to you. It's ignoring the part where you watch the games, but again, it's hard to judge guys on bad teams.

I realize he's on his third year of his contract. That doesn't scare me. Not getting a good player out of this first round pick does scare me because that's super possible and we need to stop wasting assets (1st rounder from Miami or Thaddeus Young; future first rounder in Adreian Payne deal). This class is really difficult to be confident in. And as always, fans seem to overrate the value of their pick. Moving the pick for a young player that's been productive in his two seasons is an attractive option, one I'd feel good about.

Side question: Would you rather pay big money to a 23-year old Noel or a 27-year old Dieng?

I guess we'll have to agree-to-disagree on Noel.

And like I said, the solution to not liking the #5 pick is trading down, not giving it away. I am not confident in this class either, but I think for different reasons. I don't think Simmons can shoot from the outside well enough, and I think Hield is just too small. Just because it worked for Curry doesn't mean it works for everyone.

"27 year old Dieng"? When I read that, I almost wet myself. How can he only be 27? Did he start at Duke when he was 14? Is he the Sheldon Cooper of the NBA? Then I pulled up his profile and read where he is 31 and decided that it was a hypothetical that would require much time to research.

......Actually, less time than I thought. A slight edge to Dieng. He played a lot of minutes his 27th year (more than Noel last year) almost exclusively at the 3. His split at the 3 was plus 1.3. Yes, he would be older and also in a contract year, but he had history of getting it done. So SLIGHT edge. But still not excited about trading a #5 pick for one year of a player.

It was hypothetical, but you got mixed up. I'm asking would you rather pay a 23-year old Nerlens Noel who took a leap as a player in his third season under an elite coach or pay a 27-year old Gorgui Dieng who kind of is what he is at his point -- very solid, but unspectacular? I'm not talking about Luol Deng in this. Dieng, not Deng.

And I'm not looking to trade the No. 5 pick for one year of anyone. Noel would be a piece for the now and the future. He just turned 22-years old in April. That's younger than both Buddy Hield and Kris Dunn.

Camden wrote:Who knew that saying someone was "very solid" was calling them "chopped liver?" I'm pretty sure that's not an accurate representation of what I said.

Dieng's better offensively than Noel, but he's not a star on that end by any means. Noel's already much better than Dieng defensively. Guess what this team needs more? I also think playing with a team of competent offensive players would allow Noel to be more effective on that end.

The cool thing about my scenario is that we could perhaps have BOTH of them, depending on market value for each of them. Towns/Noel/Dieng/Bjelica is really intriguing to me.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:My favorite single stat is RPM and based on RPM, Noel is average at best (64th out of 100). He's very good defensively but he's very poor offensively. I think Noel is a good player and perhaps can improve offensively, but I don't give up #5 for him without getting at least a first rounder back, preferably two if we add Bazz to the trade.

Alternatively we trade 5 and Bazz for Noel, Covington and 24.

Funny story: For a brief time, I thought RPM stood for "Revolutions Per Minute". Please forgive me. I live in NASCAR-land.

Not in a hurry to trade Bazz. 2nd best 3 on the roster next to Wiggins, and IMO, the best chance of consistently playing well is Wiggins at the 2 and Bazz at the 3.

Covington's best position is the 4, and he is not that great at it. Meanwhile, MIN has KAT/Dieng/KG.

The Wolves need a 1 (preferably better than BlondeRicky) two 5's, and then trade Payne for a 6th wing. Somebody mentioned Kendall Marshall a this thread. Don't get me wrong: He's horrible. He's played on 4 teams in 4 years. The last time he had a good game, "How I Met Your Mother" was still on the air. If he's your starting 2, just start tanking on Halloween. But a good 6th wing. And nothing more.