Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:Not the same thing. I would have stood by Rubio even without the "hot" shooting to end the season because of all the other things he does really well. There's years of evidence on that, not just 36 games. I wouldn't let 36 games alter my decision making when you could get an All-Star player that fits perfectly with the rest of the team. That's super risky, IMO.

And you have to realize that that starting lineup that included Dieng was awful defensively, and not effective against teams with bigger frontcourts or teams that had a play-making PF. Dieng was unplayable against Golden State when we beat them. Horford/Towns would be really hard to stop, but still be able to match up with any frontcourt in the league. That's ideal.

Per 36 figures of Horford and Dieng against Golden State this past season:
Dieng: 16.2 points, 8.9 rebounds and +2.8 rating
Horford: 17.7 points, 11.1 rebounds and -6.6 rating

Hah, that's too perfect. Though I wouldn't expect Cam to respond.

Horford is a great player, but im not convinced he is the right option at this moment.

Cam, the fact that you so quickly dismissed Durant as an option shows how biased you are for your former Florida Gator. If you're paying the same amount of money to 2 guys, you obviously should pay it to the one who is the superior talent.

I missed it, did he really dismiss Durant in favor of Horford?

TheFuture wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:Not the same thing. I would have stood by Rubio even without the "hot" shooting to end the season because of all the other things he does really well. There's years of evidence on that, not just 36 games. I wouldn't let 36 games alter my decision making when you could get an All-Star player that fits perfectly with the rest of the team. That's super risky, IMO.

And you have to realize that that starting lineup that included Dieng was awful defensively, and not effective against teams with bigger frontcourts or teams that had a play-making PF. Dieng was unplayable against Golden State when we beat them. Horford/Towns would be really hard to stop, but still be able to match up with any frontcourt in the league. That's ideal.

Per 36 figures of Horford and Dieng against Golden State this past season:
Dieng: 16.2 points, 8.9 rebounds and +2.8 rating
Horford: 17.7 points, 11.1 rebounds and -6.6 rating

Hah, that's too perfect. Though I wouldn't expect Cam to respond.

Horford is a great player, but im not convinced he is the right option at this moment.

Cam, the fact that you so quickly dismissed Durant as an option shows how biased you are for your former Florida Gator. If you're paying the same amount of money to 2 guys, you obviously should pay it to the one who is the superior talent.

1. Why would you expect me to not respond? You act as if I don't debate things thoroughly often on this community...

2. Why wouldn't Horford be the right option for this team? If we had the cap space to sign him, it's a homerun addition to the team. Great player (as you just said)? Check. Great fit? Check. Great teammate? Check. We have the money to sign him? If some things happen, check. Wants to be here? To be determined.

3. I didn't quickly dismiss Durant. I acknowledged him as a future Hall of Famer and a legitimate superstar in this league. I said that whether or not you pursued him might reflect how you feel about Wiggins and LaVine. I believe they both are going to be 20 PPG scorers in this league and included that Wiggins is already at that level and LaVine has showed some evidence that he could get there too. In the end, I think Horford provides things that Durant does not, such as a big presence in the middle of our team on both ends of the floor, and I think we need those things more than another scorer taking shots away from Towns, but mainly Wiggins and LaVine. I'm pretty sure I explained my stance well, but there it is again. Horford fits better on this team than Durant, in my opinion. My allegiance as a fan to Florida athletics has nothing to do with that, though, you've continued to bring it up as if it does. If it was true, I'd be arguing in favor of signing Noah (I haven't) or trying to bring Brewer back (I haven't). It ignores my argument. Stop doing it.

The Rage Monster wrote:I think we should absolutely try to max someone this off season. The cap is going up this year so the max will be quite a lot but the cap will also increase the following year making the max more manageable. They also approved jersey ads so I assume that will bring in a pretty good chunk of change the cap will increase even more. Soccer has jersey ads and Man U gets $80 million a year just to have the Chevy logo, I have to think the cap could make a significant jump again.

Good point about the advertising on jerseys in the near future and how that could increase the cap as a result. Why is the cap increasing this off-season? Because the league is expanding its revenue. Marketing on uniforms will do that as well.

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:Not the same thing. I would have stood by Rubio even without the "hot" shooting to end the season because of all the other things he does really well. There's years of evidence on that, not just 36 games. I wouldn't let 36 games alter my decision making when you could get an All-Star player that fits perfectly with the rest of the team. That's super risky, IMO.

And you have to realize that that starting lineup that included Dieng was awful defensively, and not effective against teams with bigger frontcourts or teams that had a play-making PF. Dieng was unplayable against Golden State when we beat them. Horford/Towns would be really hard to stop, but still be able to match up with any frontcourt in the league. That's ideal.

Per 36 figures of Horford and Dieng against Golden State this past season:
Dieng: 16.2 points, 8.9 rebounds and +2.8 rating
Horford: 17.7 points, 11.1 rebounds and -6.6 rating

Hah, that's too perfect. Though I wouldn't expect Cam to respond.

Horford is a great player, but im not convinced he is the right option at this moment.

Cam, the fact that you so quickly dismissed Durant as an option shows how biased you are for your former Florida Gator. If you're paying the same amount of money to 2 guys, you obviously should pay it to the one who is the superior talent.

1. Why would you expect me to not respond? You act as if I don't debate things thoroughly often on this community...

2. Why wouldn't Horford be the right option for this team? If we had the cap space to sign him, it's a homerun addition to the team. Great player (as you just said)? Check. Great fit? Check. Great teammate? Check. We have the money to sign him? If some things happen, check. Wants to be here? To be determined.

3. I didn't quickly dismiss Durant. I acknowledged him as a future Hall of Famer and a legitimate superstar in this league. I said that whether or not you pursued him might reflect how you feel about Wiggins and LaVine. I believe they both are going to be 20 PPG scorers in this league and included that Wiggins is already at that level and LaVine has showed some evidence that he could get there too. In the end, I think Horford provides things that Durant does not, such as a big presence in the middle of our team on both ends of the floor, and I think we need those things more than another scorer taking shots away from Towns, but mainly Wiggins and LaVine. I'm pretty sure I explained my stance well, but there it is again. Horford fits better on this team than Durant, in my opinion. My allegiance as a fan to Florida athletics has nothing to do with that, though, you've continued to bring it up as if it does. If it was true, I'd be arguing in favor of signing Noah (I haven't) or trying to bring Brewer back (I haven't). It ignores my argument. Stop doing it.

There isn't a team in the world where Horford fits better than Durant. He's a top 5 player on everybody's list.

When thinking of paying Horford near $30mil I look forward to our roster next year, and compare it to what it would look like with 3 quality depth signings.

Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Towns/Horford
Jones/shabazz/Prince/Bjelicia/Dieng

or

Paying a group of 3 guys $30mil.
You could pick any 3 of Delladova, Mahinmi, Marjonavic, Ezeli, Fournier, Courtney Lee, Jordan Hill, Crabbe, even Deng, and come away spending $30mil.

Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Dieng/Towns
Delladova/ Lee or Crabbe or Fournier /Shabazz/Bjelicia/ Ezeli or Marjonavic.

I think it's quite obvious which roster provides talent at every position.

Not to mention Durant is still just 27 years old. He'd be perfect here, and is the only guy i'd want to throw a max offer at this offseason.

I'm not going to argue that signing Durant would be a bad move, nor would I be against it if that option presented itself. I just value what Horford does and see that his game fills almost all of our weaknesses without getting in the way of our young players -- actually, he'd help them grow a lot. Signing Durant adds a superstar to the team and also essentially kills the hope that both Wiggins and LaVine turn into star players in Minnesota.

That's my opinion. It's not crazy at all to disagree with me, though. Kevin Durant's a talent that the NBA's honestly never seen before. I'm cool with that.

TheFuture wrote:When thinking of paying Horford near $30mil I look forward to our roster next year, and compare it to what it would look like with 3 quality depth signings.

Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Towns/Horford
Jones/shabazz/Prince/Bjelicia/Dieng

or

Paying a group of 3 guys $30mil.
You could pick any 3 of Delladova, Mahinmi, Marjonavic, Ezeli, Fournier, Courtney Lee, Jordan Hill, Crabbe, even Deng, and come away spending $30mil.

Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Dieng/Towns
Delladova/ Lee or Crabbe or Fournier /Shabazz/Bjelicia/ Ezeli or Marjonavic.

I think it's quite obvious which roster provides talent at every position.

I'll take the first team. I also think it's a bit unfair you listed players that are really unlikely to come here to play off the bench, such as: Ezeli, Dellavedova, Crabbe and Fournier. Couple of those guys are RFA too. Good luck.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I would not be opposed at all at kicking the tires on Durant. My God, are you kidding me!? That would rank right up there with KAT and Thibs, if not higher, in terms of awesome things this franchise has done in the past year.

However....guess whose career trajectory gets a stiff arm on that move? Andrew Wiggins. Frankly, I'd be shopping Wiggins for an upgrade somewhere else on the roster if we landed Durant. Not because I don't like Wiggins, simply because his full value as a player would not be fulfilled with Durant added to the team. He needs to go to a place where he is either the 1A or 1B scorer.

Wiggins starts at the 2 where he has a huge advantage, and with KD, Wig, and Zach we have by far the best wing rotation in the league. No reason to trade Wig because he might get a few less shots.

I hear you, but let's think about this from his agent's perspective. Now suddenly it's all about KAT and Durant. Wiggins becomes a 3rd or 4th wheel in that scenario along with LaVine. Yes, these guys are good team players and want to win, but they are still on their rookie contracts and trying to establish themselves in the league. If we add Durant, one or both of these guys would be unhappy in my opinion and likely request a trade. It's too many guys whose greatest strength is scoring. Wiggins isn't an Iggy, Marion, Pippen, Draymond jack-of-all trades type of player that can fill in all the gaps around multiple scorers. He needs to be one of those scorers. Same with LaVine. Same with Shabazz.

Not yet

Well, I don't see him bringing the ball up the court as a point forward and facilitating an offense, ala Draymond, Iggy, or Pippen. Nor do I see him suddenly grabbing 10+ boards and getting blocks and steals all over the place like Marion. Perhaps you are still holding out hope for these things. I view him as potentially an elite scorer and great individual defender. He's just spent the last two years as our crunch time go-to guy. Now you think he'll take a back seat to Durant and KAT and be pleased about it?

I think you're manufacturing things to worry about. If Kevin Durant wants to come here, you say yes. Duane Wade and Lebron found a way to co-exist on the Heat. When Durant's contract ends, Wig will be what, 26? Just entering his prime and ready to lead the franchise for another 8 years. All the while thanking KD for the rings he already has.

Oh, I have no problem with the idea of making a run at Durant. What I'm suggesting is that if we do that, there will likely be downstream implications. If Wiggins/LaVine were totally cool with it, fine, we can keep them and try to make Wiggins into a 3 & D specialist and LaVine a 6th man. But It wouldn't be the ideal use of those assets (especially Wiggins) and it wouldn't be easy getting them or their agents to buy into it, thus a trade of one or the other would probably ensue.

Camden wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

Camden wrote:Not the same thing. I would have stood by Rubio even without the "hot" shooting to end the season because of all the other things he does really well. There's years of evidence on that, not just 36 games. I wouldn't let 36 games alter my decision making when you could get an All-Star player that fits perfectly with the rest of the team. That's super risky, IMO.

And you have to realize that that starting lineup that included Dieng was awful defensively, and not effective against teams with bigger frontcourts or teams that had a play-making PF. Dieng was unplayable against Golden State when we beat them. Horford/Towns would be really hard to stop, but still be able to match up with any frontcourt in the league. That's ideal.

Per 36 figures of Horford and Dieng against Golden State this past season:
Dieng: 16.2 points, 8.9 rebounds and +2.8 rating
Horford: 17.7 points, 11.1 rebounds and -6.6 rating

Hah, that's too perfect. Though I wouldn't expect Cam to respond.

Horford is a great player, but im not convinced he is the right option at this moment.

Cam, the fact that you so quickly dismissed Durant as an option shows how biased you are for your former Florida Gator. If you're paying the same amount of money to 2 guys, you obviously should pay it to the one who is the superior talent.

1. Why would you expect me to not respond? You act as if I don't debate things thoroughly often on this community...

2. Why wouldn't Horford be the right option for this team? If we had the cap space to sign him, it's a homerun addition to the team. Great player (as you just said)? Check. Great fit? Check. Great teammate? Check. We have the money to sign him? If some things happen, check. Wants to be here? To be determined.

3. I didn't quickly dismiss Durant. I acknowledged him as a future Hall of Famer and a legitimate superstar in this league. I said that whether or not you pursued him might reflect how you feel about Wiggins and LaVine. I believe they both are going to be 20 PPG scorers in this league and included that Wiggins is already at that level and LaVine has showed some evidence that he could get there too. In the end, I think Horford provides things that Durant does not, such as a big presence in the middle of our team on both ends of the floor, and I think we need those things more than another scorer taking shots away from Towns, but mainly Wiggins and LaVine. I'm pretty sure I explained my stance well, but there it is again. Horford fits better on this team than Durant, in my opinion. My allegiance as a fan to Florida athletics has nothing to do with that, though, you've continued to bring it up as if it does. If it was true, I'd be arguing in favor of signing Noah (I haven't) or trying to bring Brewer back (I haven't). It ignores my argument. Stop doing it.

I won't deny that you make a strong case, and a lot of it honestly cannot be dismissed. Horford is a great teammate by all accounts. He is very consistent, plus defender, plus offensive player, has ties with Towns, and is probably much more likely to sign here vs Durant. So I do understand your focus on him. With that being said, I still don't want to pay him that much money. Dieng is coming into his own, Towns is going into his second year. They also compliment eachother very well. As i see it, we're set at the starting frontcourt spots for years to come. LaVine, Wiggins, and Rubio have all earned their starting spots as well. They all are young players, and should be allowed to grow their games together for the next 3+ years. I know there are mixed feelings here in regards to Dieng being a starter, but, in my eyes, he's vital to this team and has earned his starting spot. Our front office needs to show some faith in this group of 5 talented players and bring in people to play behind them, not in front of them.