Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Teague's problem was defense.

Cool would you be willing to expand on what you saw from him on that end?

Sure Monster, I saw several things. He didn't bring enough energy, he was slow to rotate, and he had trouble keeping his man in front of him. And then he didn't get us going with tempo on the transition to offense.

He does seem more casual moving it the other way. I like his timing on looking for his shots, he knows when to shoot in the game to keep balance. I agree with your assessment of his D, he does some good things but he needs to get a bit more jacked for the whole time he is out there.

The rap on Teague has always been his tendency to appear disinterested and passive on the defensive end. But I was especially disappointed in what Cool identified as Teague's failure to set the tempo with energy offensively. I like Teague's ability to penetrate and score. But tonight I missed Ricky -- his defensive intensity, his rebounding his steals, his passing and his overall energy. Teague has to play better.

That's not true about Teague's defense.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nba.com/amp/hawks/features/believe-it-jeff-teague-one-best-defensive-point-guards-basketball

I've heard a different take on Teague's defense. We'll just have to see how he performs defensively over the course of this season. He certainly didn't play well tonight.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Teague's problem was defense.

Cool would you be willing to expand on what you saw from him on that end?

Sure Monster, I saw several things. He didn't bring enough energy, he was slow to rotate, and he had trouble keeping his man in front of him. And then he didn't get us going with tempo on the transition to offense.

He does seem more casual moving it the other way. I like his timing on looking for his shots, he knows when to shoot in the game to keep balance. I agree with your assessment of his D, he does some good things but he needs to get a bit more jacked for the whole time he is out there.

The rap on Teague has always been his tendency to appear disinterested and passive on the defensive end. But I was especially disappointed in what Cool identified as Teague's failure to set the tempo with energy offensively. I like Teague's ability to penetrate and score. But tonight I missed Ricky -- his defensive intensity, his rebounding his steals, his passing and his overall energy. Teague has to play better.

That's not true about Teague's defense.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nba.com/amp/hawks/features/believe-it-jeff-teague-one-best-defensive-point-guards-basketball

I've heard a different take on Teague's defense. We'll just have to see how he performs defensively over the course of this season. He certainly didn't play well tonight.

Well a couple years ago Rubio was certainly not considered a good defender around the league but people seem to forget all about that. I think it's fair to have more of an open mind.

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Teague's problem was defense.

Yes. I can't get myself to conclude that the subbing Teague back in for Tyus down the stretch would have changed the outcome of the game, although I get the argument that Teague would have been the better choice at that point of the game. Overall, our defense was good enough to win. And it's not. Hard to figure out why we lost. We were outrebounded by 8. We missed shots we should make. And we left 6 points at the line.

The good news tonight?

1. The play of Belly, Crawford and Tyus off the bench -- especially Belly

2. Wiggins 3-point shooting and overall play. He had some defensive lapses, but overall I thought he was pretty good defensively. And he showed promise on the boards. He needs to be more consistent at the line, but at least he got to the line.

The bad news? Just about everything else.

1. The team's overall poor shooting.
2. KAT's and Teague's defense
4. The poor play of Taj and Gorgui.

Note: Ricky had 9 points, 5 rebounds, 10 assists and 2 steals for Utah.

And a -14. (Just saying if we used it to make him look good with the wolves we have to do it the other way)

I believe Rudy Gobert was also -14 tonight. It's a highly misleading stat. Ricky was more productive tonight than Teague. It's just a fact. I would have rather had Ricky's productivity than what we got from Teague tonight. But let's be clear, this season isn't going to turn on whether we have Ricky or Teague as our starting PG.

We lost tonight because we were dominated on the boards and didn't shoot the way we need to. Taj and Gorgui between them tonight hit 4 of 16 shots -- nearly all of them shot to mid-range shots. That's not acceptable. Neither one blocked a shot and both were repeatedly torched on the defensive end and didn't box out consistently. If those two guys play that way very often, this team will be in deep trouble no matter how well Teague plays. And Bazz can't go 1-6 off the bench like he did tonight.

This game's behind us now. We open at home Friday night against the Jazz. The Wolves have to win that one -- no excuses. Then it's on the road to OKC. That would be a great game to steal on the road. Then it's back home against the Pacers. We should win two of our next three and end up with a 2-2 record after 4 games. It's a long season after that and we'll see what happens.

Did you watch the game Lip or are we just going to go off box scores? Teague was pretty "productive" in his 26 minutes. 11 points 50% shooting 6 assists 1 steal and a block. Neither guy was playing against a surefire starting PG. Rubio was playing against a team that was a poor defensive one last year and Teague was playing against the Spurs. For Dunn i looked and when Rubio checked out of the game late in the 3rd the Jazz were down 10 points. When he re-entered the game in the 4th the Jazz were up 11. Remember ai was a person that took the stance that Denver was gonna be an overrated team and they got run by the Jazz bench.

Lets look at the positive.... we could be the suns who just put there player of the game on twitter as mike james, with a whopping 12 points 1 assist and two rebounds. Ouch.

I watched the entire game with my girl friend so I couldn't post (anybody else run into that dynamic sometimes?), but I just finished reading the game thread. Some good takes, but I lean toward agreeing with Khans take...that this is just one game, and we didn't look as prepared or cohesive as the Spurs. Completely understandable, since they have almost their entire roster back and we have had big changes, and we also had only 3 preseason games. We looked like a team with a lot of talent, but that was not at all ready for the regular season. I'm not worried. There were a lot of positives...Butler, Crawford, Jones, Belly all showed promise. I loved Teague's quickness and stop and go moves, and I'll take 6 assists and 1 TO in 25 minutes any night. We just didn't play as a team, and that will change as they become more comfortable with each other.

I hate to bring this up, but despite his terrific scoring night, Wig really bugged me tonight. His poor defense was on display I thought, and his handle was awful...he only had one TO, but he looked like he was going to turn the ball over almost every time he touched it. Loved the scoring, but I just didn't love Wig's overall game tonight. His 3-pointers tonight looked smooth and highlighted his enormous potential, but I need a lot more consistency out of him. I think we will see it as he matures.

Thibs is just not a good coach. Overrated on defense, pretty poor on offense. Wears on his players with his constant yelling. Can't seem to draw any good play out of a time out. Historically bad with his rotations and minute management.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Teague's problem was defense.

Yes. I can't get myself to conclude that the subbing Teague back in for Tyus down the stretch would have changed the outcome of the game, although I get the argument that Teague would have been the better choice at that point of the game. Overall, our defense was good enough to win. And it's not. Hard to figure out why we lost. We were outrebounded by 8. We missed shots we should make. And we left 6 points at the line.

The good news tonight?

1. The play of Belly, Crawford and Tyus off the bench -- especially Belly

2. Wiggins 3-point shooting and overall play. He had some defensive lapses, but overall I thought he was pretty good defensively. And he showed promise on the boards. He needs to be more consistent at the line, but at least he got to the line.

The bad news? Just about everything else.

1. The team's overall poor shooting.
2. KAT's and Teague's defense
4. The poor play of Taj and Gorgui.

Note: Ricky had 9 points, 5 rebounds, 10 assists and 2 steals for Utah.

And a -14. (Just saying if we used it to make him look good with the wolves we have to do it the other way)

I believe Rudy Gobert was also -14 tonight. It's a highly misleading stat. Ricky was more productive tonight than Teague. It's just a fact. I would have rather had Ricky's productivity than what we got from Teague tonight. But let's be clear, this season isn't going to turn on whether we have Ricky or Teague as our starting PG.

We lost tonight because we were dominated on the boards and didn't shoot the way we need to. Taj and Gorgui between them tonight hit 4 of 16 shots -- nearly all of them shot to mid-range shots. That's not acceptable. Neither one blocked a shot and both were repeatedly torched on the defensive end and didn't box out consistently. If those two guys play that way very often, this team will be in deep trouble no matter how well Teague plays. And Bazz can't go 1-6 off the bench like he did tonight.

This game's behind us now. We open at home Friday night against the Jazz. The Wolves have to win that one -- no excuses. Then it's on the road to OKC. That would be a great game to steal on the road. Then it's back home against the Pacers. We should win two of our next three and end up with a 2-2 record after 4 games. It's a long season after that and we'll see what happens.

Did you watch the game Lip or are we just going to go off box scores? Teague was pretty "productive" in his 26 minutes. 11 points 50% shooting 6 assists 1 steal and a block. Neither guy was playing against a surefire starting PG. Rubio was playing against a team that was a poor defensive one last year and Teague was playing against the Spurs. For Dunn i looked and when Rubio checked out of the game late in the 3rd the Jazz were down 10 points. When he re-entered the game in the 4th the Jazz were up 11. Remember ai was a person that took the stance that Denver was gonna be an overrated team and they got run by the Jazz bench.

Monster -- Just let it go! :). I'll say it one more time. Teague's performance relative to Ricky's is not a main story-line from last night's game. I mentioned it in passing. Cool brought up Teague's poor defense and I agreed. I liked Ricky's stat line better than Teague's -- yes, from the box score. And I expect Teague to play better than he did last night. Apparently, you were happy with Teague's performance last night and weren't impressed by Ricky's performance. That's OK. I might have hated Ricky's game if I had seen the Utah game. Now, back to what I consider the main story line from the Wolves game. We lost because we were dominated on the boards and didn't hit shots. Gorgui and Taj combining on 4 for 16 shooting and Bazz going 1 for 6 off the bench. That's not acceptable. Gorgui and Taj didn't defend or rebound particularly well either. Those three guys -- far more than Teague -- have to play much better for this team to be a top 5 contender in the West.

Glad I went to bed after the 1st quarter! It simply wasn't worth it to me to stay up late and get stressed about the first game against a team that I knew would methodically pick us apart.

Good to see Wig pull up for 3 with confidence. I don't care if he goes 2-8 some nights. He has got to take a higher volume of 3's and get away from those dumb one dribble long 2's that he loves so much. That's the key to him becoming a much more efficient player.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Teague's problem was defense.

Yes. I can't get myself to conclude that the subbing Teague back in for Tyus down the stretch would have changed the outcome of the game, although I get the argument that Teague would have been the better choice at that point of the game. Overall, our defense was good enough to win. And it's not. Hard to figure out why we lost. We were outrebounded by 8. We missed shots we should make. And we left 6 points at the line.

The good news tonight?

1. The play of Belly, Crawford and Tyus off the bench -- especially Belly

2. Wiggins 3-point shooting and overall play. He had some defensive lapses, but overall I thought he was pretty good defensively. And he showed promise on the boards. He needs to be more consistent at the line, but at least he got to the line.

The bad news? Just about everything else.

1. The team's overall poor shooting.
2. KAT's and Teague's defense
4. The poor play of Taj and Gorgui.

Note: Ricky had 9 points, 5 rebounds, 10 assists and 2 steals for Utah.

And a -14. (Just saying if we used it to make him look good with the wolves we have to do it the other way)

I believe Rudy Gobert was also -14 tonight. It's a highly misleading stat. Ricky was more productive tonight than Teague. It's just a fact. I would have rather had Ricky's productivity than what we got from Teague tonight. But let's be clear, this season isn't going to turn on whether we have Ricky or Teague as our starting PG.

We lost tonight because we were dominated on the boards and didn't shoot the way we need to. Taj and Gorgui between them tonight hit 4 of 16 shots -- nearly all of them shot to mid-range shots. That's not acceptable. Neither one blocked a shot and both were repeatedly torched on the defensive end and didn't box out consistently. If those two guys play that way very often, this team will be in deep trouble no matter how well Teague plays. And Bazz can't go 1-6 off the bench like he did tonight.

This game's behind us now. We open at home Friday night against the Jazz. The Wolves have to win that one -- no excuses. Then it's on the road to OKC. That would be a great game to steal on the road. Then it's back home against the Pacers. We should win two of our next three and end up with a 2-2 record after 4 games. It's a long season after that and we'll see what happens.

Did you watch the game Lip or are we just going to go off box scores? Teague was pretty "productive" in his 26 minutes. 11 points 50% shooting 6 assists 1 steal and a block. Neither guy was playing against a surefire starting PG. Rubio was playing against a team that was a poor defensive one last year and Teague was playing against the Spurs. For Dunn i looked and when Rubio checked out of the game late in the 3rd the Jazz were down 10 points. When he re-entered the game in the 4th the Jazz were up 11. Remember ai was a person that took the stance that Denver was gonna be an overrated team and they got run by the Jazz bench.

Monster -- Just let it go! :). I'll say it one more time. Teague's performance relative to Ricky's is not a main story-line from last night's game. I mentioned it in passing. Cool brought up Teague's poor defense and I agreed. I liked Ricky's stat line better than Teague's -- yes, from the box score. And I expect Teague to play better than he did last night. Apparently, you were happy with Teague's performance last night and weren't impressed by Ricky's performance. That's OK. I might have hated Ricky's game if I had seen the Utah game. Now, back to what I consider the main story line from the Wolves game. We lost because we were dominated on the boards and didn't hit shots. Gorgui and Taj combining on 4 for 16 shooting and Bazz going 1 for 6 off the bench. That's not acceptable. Gorgui and Taj didn't defend or rebound particularly well either. Those three guys -- far more than Teague -- have to play much better for this team to be a top 5 contender in the West.

I'm on board with with your perspective here. I wasn't fully happy with Teague either but I agree with basically what you said here about the other factors leading to the loss.

The Dieng and Gibson combo isn't going to work well I'm afraid. I don't see a lineup with two bigs working against the top teams. I think personally Gibson is the better player then Gorgi but that's very debateable. That's why I was in favor of trading Gorgi this offseason. He's going to end up getting squeezed for minutes. It was painful watch he and Gibson try to play the stretch 4 role last night.