Wolves v Magic GTD

[BloopOracle]

It is now 11:00 a.m. the next day, why hasn't Ryan been fired yet?

[Wolvesfan21]

What is happening to Edwards, Is it the Wolves curse? He came out and was impressive the first week of the season and now he is completely struggling on the offensive side. Will he turn it around? I'm losing hope he'll become a star player in the league.

[AbeVigodaLive]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

Yet there are times where he's the only guy out there that can seemingly make a shot. Someone needs to put the ball in the basket. I guess the question in these LaVine/DLO discussions is what happens when you replace with a more well rounded 2-way player who is less potent as a scorer?

What if instead of DLO we had Monte Morris or DeJounte Murray as a starting PG - solid PGs that are not known for any one strength or weakness - would we be better, worse, or the same?

Yes. That's sort of where I'm going with some of my pushback on your +/- take.

Jamal Crawford was wildly inefficient with the Wolves. And he very definitely helped them win games. You need a guy who can score who can carry a team for stretches. The rub is if you play a guy like Crawford vs. other starters. Or make a guy like LaVine a #1 focal point of a team. You need to be able to temper their impact when it's negative.

They're great 6th men and complementary second or third fiddles. But they most definitely have value. An entire team of Tyus Jones-like players just can't use their skills the same way without the Crawfords and LaVines in the world.



[Note: So why has Rosas filled the roster with THREE guards who seem to be cut from that cloth? I don't know. I simply don't know... other than shooting fish in a barrel hoping for the next James Harden type player.]

[Wolvesfan21]

It is now 11:00 a.m. the next day, why hasn't Ryan been fired yet?

Firing Ryan won't do anything except make you feel better. Would you fire Ryan if the Wolves were .500 and KAT was healthy? I'm not absolving Ryan for any blame, just being realistic here.

[Coolbreeze44]

It is now 11:00 a.m. the next day, why hasn't Ryan been fired yet?

Because once that happens the bullseye is solely on Rosas. It's one of the few cards he has left to play. Once used, he is officially on the clock.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It is now 11:00 a.m. the next day, why hasn't Ryan been fired yet?

Because once that happens the bullseye is solely on Rosas. It's one of the few cards he has left to play. Once used, he is officially on the clock.

Usually. But don't undersell how quickly the pandemic + KAT + injuries + less time for the young guys to gel = worst team in the league status angle will be used.

Despite proclamations about "no excuses"... those excuses will most definitely be leaked.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It is now 11:00 a.m. the next day, why hasn't Ryan been fired yet?

Because once that happens the bullseye is solely on Rosas. It's one of the few cards he has left to play. Once used, he is officially on the clock.

Abe's been saying this for weeks and I get the logic. On the other hand, he may be able to get a "free trial" with Vanderpool if he fires Ryan before the season ends and puts him in as interim head coach. Now if he wants to get someone more established, I could see him waiting until the offseason. But I think it's clear at this point that Saunders won't be our head coach this time next year.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

Yet there are times where he's the only guy out there that can seemingly make a shot. Someone needs to put the ball in the basket. I guess the question in these LaVine/DLO discussions is what happens when you replace with a more well rounded 2-way player who is less potent as a scorer?

What if instead of DLO we had Monte Morris or DeJounte Murray as a starting PG - solid PGs that are not known for any one strength or weakness - would we be better, worse, or the same?

Yes. That's sort of where I'm going with some of my pushback on your +/- take.

Jamal Crawford was wildly inefficient with the Wolves. And he very definitely helped them win games. You need a guy who can score who can carry a team for stretches. The rub is if you play a guy like Crawford vs. other starters. Or make a guy like LaVine a #1 focal point of a team. You need to be able to temper their impact when it's negative.

They're great 6th men and complementary second or third fiddles. But they most definitely have value. An entire team of Tyus Jones-like players just can't use their skills the same way without the Crawfords and LaVines in the world.



[Note: So why has Rosas filled the roster with THREE guards who seem to be cut from that cloth? I don't know. I simply don't know... other than shooting fish in a barrel hoping for the next James Harden type player.]

I agree that you can't just replace a DLO or LaVine with a polar opposite one-way player and expect better results. This is where the nuance comes in. What if you replace with someone who, yes, can still generate some semblance of offense on their own AND doesn't bleed points in other ways (turnovers, poor defense, etc.). Thus my thought experiment with DeJounte Murray. He's half the price of DLO but do you get the same or better results overall? And now you have $15M to go invest in another piece.

To me this is a moneyball type thing, not a "DLO and LaVine are completely worthless players because their +/- is so bad" thing. The nuance is important, as you seem to sometimes take my argument and turn it into an all or nothing narrative. It's not.

[AbeVigodaLive]

DLO is a +18 so far!!!

I'm just catching up to this thread now, so I have the advantage of hindsight. But here's one thing I know for sure...an upbeat post about DLO having a positive plus/minus midgame is never going to age well...resist the urge! Only Okogie's -14 kept DLO from once again leading us in worst +/-.

I recognize that Edward's plus 13 is an excellent example of why +/- is not reliable in a small sample size. But when players like DLO and LaVine consistently lead their team in worst +/-. we have to notice, right?

Yet there are times where he's the only guy out there that can seemingly make a shot. Someone needs to put the ball in the basket. I guess the question in these LaVine/DLO discussions is what happens when you replace with a more well rounded 2-way player who is less potent as a scorer?

What if instead of DLO we had Monte Morris or DeJounte Murray as a starting PG - solid PGs that are not known for any one strength or weakness - would we be better, worse, or the same?

Yes. That's sort of where I'm going with some of my pushback on your +/- take.

Jamal Crawford was wildly inefficient with the Wolves. And he very definitely helped them win games. You need a guy who can score who can carry a team for stretches. The rub is if you play a guy like Crawford vs. other starters. Or make a guy like LaVine a #1 focal point of a team. You need to be able to temper their impact when it's negative.

They're great 6th men and complementary second or third fiddles. But they most definitely have value. An entire team of Tyus Jones-like players just can't use their skills the same way without the Crawfords and LaVines in the world.



[Note: So why has Rosas filled the roster with THREE guards who seem to be cut from that cloth? I don't know. I simply don't know... other than shooting fish in a barrel hoping for the next James Harden type player.]

I agree that you can't just replace a DLO or LaVine with a polar opposite one-way player and expect better results. This is where the nuance comes in. What if you replace with someone who, yes, can still generate some semblance of offense on their own AND doesn't bleed points in other ways (turnovers, poor defense, etc.). Thus my thought experiment with DeJounte Murray. He's half the price of DLO but do you get the same or better results overall? And now you have $15M to go invest in another piece.

To me this is a moneyball type thing, not a "DLO and LaVine are completely worthless players because their +/- is so bad" thing. The nuance is important, as you seem to sometimes take my argument and turn it into an all or nothing narrative. It's not.

I know. I just think it's dangerous to label a guy like DeRozan who's actually been on many successful 50+ win teams... while playing the most minutes on the team... as a guy who makes his teams worse every year.

Or even compare him to LaVine or Russell as a guy who doesn't win.

[BloopOracle]

It is now 11:52 a.m., why hasn't Abe been fired yet?