Minnesota Sports Forum

Didn't bother watching this one...knew we'd end up losing. It actually looks like it was closer that I thought it would. be.

Another late DVR Summary:

- A little bit of everything in this one: Teague's dribbling. Crawford's gunning. Wiggins absence. Thibs yelling. KAT's defense. Ref stuff. Makes for a lot of stuff for 17 pages.

- Denver has now won 4 straight games where they were down late in the game... only to come back to win. All have been against possible playoff teams. If they make the playoffs... they've earned it.

- A bad night to miss three pointers. Denver came in #29 in defending the three pointer... 38.1%. Teams average 11 makes on 29 attempts. Minnesota shot 6 - 24 (25%).

- I've read/heard A LOT about how well liked Jamal Crawford is around the league. Locker room to locker room. He's just known as a good teammate. So why does he seem like the absolute worst teammate ever... on the court. The iso dribbling into a contested 16 - 22 footer... time after time after time... while four Wolves teammates literally stand there with their hands up but not expecting the ball.

- Teague dribbles. A lot. We've discussed it many time... but there were some glaring possessions of it tonight. Wow.

- Tyus disappeared in this one. We saw why a lot of teams opt for a veteran former starter, now backup PG vs. a young caretaker one. Devin Harris isn't a great player. And a guy like Raymond Felton isn't either. But those guys are on rosters getting big minutes in big games exactly for what we saw tonight. Tyus Jones simply doesn't have that gear. And that was a HUGE difference.

- KAT showed up. He played well. We'll talk about the 6th foul... but the 5th one did him in. On the local broadcast... they pointed out that it wasn't KAT who fouled Millsap.

- Wiggins. Some will say he didn't get the ball. Others will say he's low energy and has to make his presence felt. Rinse. Repeat. The bottom line is the team (for whatever reasons you want to choose) is not getting enough from him at this point in his career.

- Gibson is a pro. I shudder to think where this team would have been if he ever got hurt.

- I wrote a thread about how difficult the Lakers game could be tonight. Worst case scenario is that the Wolves lost to Denver (likely for many reasons)... and were too gassed and without Butler for the back-to-back in LA.

- Wolves starters played less than the Nuggets starters last night. Marginally. Wait... what? (see tonight's game in LA after a high altitude game. I expect 40+ tonight for them if it's close tonight.)

- Easy to say after the fact... or easy to say after being a lifetime Wolves fan... but I never thought they were gonna win. I talked myself into "If they get ONE stop right here, we might win!" moment after Belly hit the three to go up 93 - 90. The Wolves promptly gave up a driving layup.

- It's looking more likely that IF the Wolves get in... it's going to be as a #8 seed. Vs. Houston. Gulp.

The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

Rubio was good at getting other guys involved. Just sayin......

Although I'm not sure anyone can bring Wiggins up to being an efficient player. He simply isn't very accurate and doesn't run hard enough to get many easy buckets in transition.

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

They were coming of a 3-day layoff. He just turned 23.

"No legs."

To be fair, if he was gassed or had no legs or whatever... that's probably just as much of an organizational thing as it is a Wiggins thing. Smart teams are doing a lot of different things to ensure key players have spry legs when they need them most.

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

I agree 100% with this. They ran a side PnR for Belly late. He slipped the screen and made a nice move along the baseline but missed the layup. He blows my mind why he isn't involved more in the offense.

Q12543 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

Rubio was good at getting other guys involved. Just sayin......

Although I'm not sure anyone can bring Wiggins up to being an efficient player. He simply isn't very accurate and doesn't run hard enough to get many easy buckets in transition.

If Ricky wasn't inept at creating his own offense I would have been happy to keep him. When you are little to no threat to score the ball when you drive you just can't be the primary ball handler. There's a reason Utah has Mitchell doing so much.

I'm fine with Teague as the secondary action on a play. He can run a good 2 man game when the shot clock is winding down. I think Teague has been really solid for us this year with a couple head scratching things.

The biggest problem is just what happens when you run a PnR offense and your best guard gets hurt. The next man up just can't do it at that level. Towns has to go for 56 to make up for it and he can't do that every night. We really need a system in place even with Jimmy that can function and get everyone involved in the offense. We should be able to just kill people with our athleticism using curls and movement to get guys a couple feet closer to the hoop before they have to dribble.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

They were coming of a 3-day layoff. He just turned 23.

"No legs."

To be fair, if he was gassed or had no legs or whatever... that's probably just as much of an organizational thing as it is a Wiggins thing. Smart teams are doing a lot of different things to ensure key players have spry legs when they need them most.

He's played 324/325 possible games at 36 minutes a night for 4 years now. He is the NBA's iron man right now. He also just might not do well in high altitude. Either way from his first jumper that was way short up until the end of the game he just looked like he had nothing in the tank.

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

They were coming of a 3-day layoff. He just turned 23.

"No legs."

To be fair, if he was gassed or had no legs or whatever... that's probably just as much of an organizational thing as it is a Wiggins thing. Smart teams are doing a lot of different things to ensure key players have spry legs when they need them most.

He's played 324/325 possible games at 36 minutes a night for 4 years now. He is the NBA's iron man right now. He also just might not do well in high altitude. Either way from his first jumper that was way short up until the end of the game he just looked like he had nothing in the tank.

While I commend him for going out there every night, year after year... it's seriously impressive... what's it really mean if he doesn't have the energy needed in the "most important game in 14 years?"

9/6/3/33% is simply not good enough whether it's (1) tired legs/high altitude or... even worse... (2) low energy.

I don't want to turn this into a Wiggins bashing thread, because he was A reason for the loss... but not nearly THE reason. But I am ready for guys like KAT and Wiggins to be THE reasons the Wolves win unexpectedly or make the playoffs. They have three games to show me left.

If not, we go right back to yet ANOTHER season of "This is the year the improvement happens and he makes the leap."

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The one thing that frustrates me with this team is the 100% PnR offense. On a night when a guy like Wiggins has no legs you just can't have his offense be give him the ball 26ft from the basket and do something with it. Run some curls for him. Do something that gives him a little space to work with and less distance to cover to get to the rim. And as great as Taj played I felt like we should have had Towns and Belly running in more of the PnR's. Wiggins and Belly disappeared on the offensive end because we don't do anything to get them involved. They stand around as we run another PnR. And then they get involved when it's their turn to run the PnR. Teague runs a good two man game. It rarely translates to any kick outs though so we play 2 on 5 a lot. We just need a better first action than PnR. Get the ball moving and then run a PnR if nothing comes from the first action.

They were coming of a 3-day layoff. He just turned 23.

"No legs."

To be fair, if he was gassed or had no legs or whatever... that's probably just as much of an organizational thing as it is a Wiggins thing. Smart teams are doing a lot of different things to ensure key players have spry legs when they need them most.

He's played 324/325 possible games at 36 minutes a night for 4 years now. He is the NBA's iron man right now. He also just might not do well in high altitude. Either way from his first jumper that was way short up until the end of the game he just looked like he had nothing in the tank.

While I commend him for going out there every night, year after year... it's seriously impressive... what's it really mean if he doesn't have the energy needed in the "most important game in 14 years?"

9/6/3/33% is simply not good enough whether it's (1) tired legs/high altitude or... even worse... (2) low energy.

I don't want to turn this into a Wiggins bashing thread, because he was A reason for the loss... but not nearly THE reason. But I am ready for guys like KAT and Wiggins to be THE reasons the Wolves win unexpectedly or make the playoffs. They have three games to show me left.

If not, we go right back to yet ANOTHER season of "This is the year the improvement happens and he makes the leap."

Wiggins has a right to be tired given how much Thibs has played him this year, but being tired doesn't excuse taking a bunch of bad shots. It's awful but forgivable if your max player lays an egg in such a huge game, but this is not isolated to this game. No bashing needed. He just has to go.

And at this point I hope we send Thibs out with him.