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Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:59 pm
by thedoper
Camden0916 wrote:thedoper wrote:Hard to claim where Towns fits in the legacy of NCAA bigs based on extrapolating his stats. The majority of this year he was a feature in the 2nd unit and when on the first unit was basically an off the ball help defender. I recognize that he came on later in the year and his PT went up. But I don't think you can simply use his per minute production and say that will translate to every context.
That being said think KAT is aggressive and has a great fire to his game and am excited to see how that translates to the NBA. I am just not willing to extrapolate his stats to 36 minutes and use that as the firm definition of his statistical value, or to use that stats to explain what KAT does better than Okafor.
Majority of the season he was the first option offensively on a team that had bad guard play and zero spacing besides Booker. He just didn't have 30+ minutes like Okafor, Kaminsky and other highly-productive prospects. I'm not sure what Kentucky season you watched, if you watched any at all. According to you, he was just a defending/rebounding big and that was it last year. That's just false.
Man you love the straw man. Keep fighting something that isn't there. Watched plenty of games, never said anything about how he was used in offense on the first unit I did talk about his D on the 1st unit. My point stands that his stats are nfair to extrapolate over 36, because of the situational context. Keep arguing against something I never said though. I get you love Towns, but you've got to learn to reign in your passive aggressive streak a bit. It won't be healthy for you if we shockingly don't end up with him.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:05 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Not sure if this was posted yet but AP Kraw zin ski was on with Bump yesterday and said Towns is the choice and he doesnt see a scenario where that will change. His info is as good as anyones. I voted for Towns in this poll btw.
That's encouraging.
(But I still think Flip picks Okafor)
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:13 pm
by 60WinTim
Q12543 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Not sure if this was posted yet but AP Kraw zin ski was on with Bump yesterday and said Towns is the choice and he doesnt see a scenario where that will change. His info is as good as anyones. I voted for Towns in this poll btw.
That's encouraging.
(But I still think Flip picks Okafor)
I love the reverse psychology, Q! ;-)
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:17 pm
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
60WinTim wrote:Q12543 wrote:Phenom's_Revenge wrote:Not sure if this was posted yet but AP Kraw zin ski was on with Bump yesterday and said Towns is the choice and he doesnt see a scenario where that will change. His info is as good as anyones. I voted for Towns in this poll btw.
That's encouraging.
(But I still think Flip picks Okafor)
I love the reverse psychology, Q! ;-)
Tim, I'm counting on the boy to convince him otherwise, but Flip is ultimately his own man.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:46 pm
by The Rage Monster [enjin:8010341]
Camden wrote:thedoper wrote:Hard to claim where Towns fits in the legacy of NCAA bigs based on extrapolating his stats. The majority of this year he was a feature in the 2nd unit and when on the first unit was basically an off the ball help defender. I recognize that he came on later in the year and his PT went up. But I don't think you can simply use his per minute production and say that will translate to every context.
That being said think KAT is aggressive and has a great fire to his game and am excited to see how that translates to the NBA. I am just not willing to extrapolate his stats to 36 minutes and use that as the firm definition of his statistical value, or to use that stats to explain what KAT does better than Okafor.
Majority of the season he was the first option offensively on a team that had bad guard play and zero spacing besides Booker. He just didn't have 30+ minutes like Okafor, Kaminsky and other highly-productive prospects. I'm not sure what Kentucky season you watched, if you watched any at all. According to you, he was just a defending/rebounding big and that was it last year. That's just false.
These discussions would be so much better if you didn't make up facts like this. You do realize Towns was only 5th in FGA/game and 6th in min/game right? If that's your idea of a first option then apparently JR Smith and Shaun Livingston are the top options during the finals...I'm glad you mentioned Kaminsky, isn't he the slow guy who Towns couldn't defend in the final four?
We all agree Towns could turn out to be a great player but let's not pretend his college career was anything more than it actually was.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:08 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
I said for the majority of the season he was the first option on offense... because he was. That was Calipari's offense; drawing up set after set to get Karl a post touch and then working off that. Having the most FGAs doesn't mean you're the first option. If so, then Quinn Cook was Duke's first option and not Jahlil Okafor. Watch the games and quit trying your best to make me look like a bad guy.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:26 am
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
Camden0916 wrote:I said for the majority of the season he was the first option on offense... because he was. That was Calipari's offense; drawing up set after set to get Karl a post touch and then working off that. Having the most FGAs doesn't mean you're the first option. If so, then Quinn Cook was Duke's first option and not Jahlil Okafor. Watch the games and quit trying your best to make me look like a bad guy.
The difference between Okafor's usage rate and the number two guy on Duke is wider than the difference between Towns and 6 other guys on that Kentucky team. I find it hard to call a guy the primary option on offense for most of the season when his usage is 0.1% higher than Aaron Harrison and 0.9% higher than Booker. That seems pretty close to clearly say Towns was the #1 option for most of the year. Those numbers would indicate the role was not carried out by 1 guy most of the year, but by multiple guys throughout the year.
I watched them multiple times this year and the offense did not appear to be designed to get Towns looks except for a handful of games throughout the year when he was playing well in the post and even in some of those games they went away from him (**cough** Wisconsin game **cough**) which you don't do if a guy is who your offense is meant to be run through as you suggest it was. Getting touches and running an offense through a player are two different things which separates Okafor from Towns because it only happened a handful of times for Towns this year when he was playing well offensively. He had 18 games with 5 or less shots and 14 of them with 5 or less free throws attempted. That's just not a number 1 option for a "majority" of the year when that's almost half the games. His lack of MPG's is also not a good sign of being their primary option on offense when he had 6 teammates getting more minutes than him.
For those reasons I can't buy your argument.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:55 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Okie dokie.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:15 pm
by thedoper
Towns was the only #1 option who averaged 20 mpg in the NCAA I guess. This is getting laughable. I think everyone watched the games, and I don't see how the truth about his usage takes anything away from his potential, all of those things are still embedded in his talent. I am just saying we should use context when we through out his on court performance as being statistically dominant to Okafor in anything but FT%.
Simple summary:
Did he go up against second units on offense for many of his minutes? Yes. Was he able to gamble for rebounds and blocks because he played next to arguably the best defender in the NCAA? Yes. Was the SEC garbage this year? Absolutely. Do things things likely inflate his per 36 stats? Of course. Does this mean he is not talented or didn't perform when he was on the court? Of course not.
Re: Who Will Flip Take
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:41 am
by MikkeMan
The Rage Monster wrote:
These discussions would be so much better if you didn't make up facts like this. You do realize Towns was only 5th in FGA/game and 6th in min/game right? If that's your idea of a first option then apparently JR Smith and Shaun Livingston are the top options during the finals...I'm glad you mentioned Kaminsky, isn't he the slow guy who Towns couldn't defend in the final four?
We all agree Towns could turn out to be a great player but let's not pretend his college career was anything more than it actually was.
Towns had still highest usage of all Kentucky players this season and most points per 40 minutes. So when he was on floor, he was most of the time at least pretty close to first option. Since usage was pretty even distributed between Kentucky players (6 players with major share of minutes had USG between 20.8 and 23.7. Only WCS and Ulis from players getting minutes had clearly lower usage) it is pretty clear that players getting most minutes have most FG attempts.