Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:

Q12543 wrote:So wait, Boston is #1 in the NBA in defense starting a rookie and 2nd year wing, neither of which played more than one year of pro ball. That is nuts! Aaaaaand Kyrie Irving - never known for his defense - is their starting point guard. Crazy.

I need to dig into those numbers. It's almost embarrassing if you are a coach like Thibs with his current mix of vets and elite athletes. I know we have looked better the last few games, but I just have a hard time understanding how we can still be this bad when you look at our roster on paper. And Boston with Irving and two greenhorns are #1.....

In games that Butler has played Wolves have defensive rating 106.8 (calculated from basketball-reference stats) that would put them just ahead of Golden State, which has defensive rating 107 and Golden state had 2nd best defensive rating last year.

I think there is not yet much point to look those numbers since teams have played so few games. Boston has played just three teams with winning record and out of their opponents only Cleveland has currently top10 offense. Lets check those numbers again after 20 games and if Boston still has the best defensive rating, it might mean their defensive success is legit.

Agree it's early Mikkeman, but we shouldn't fall apart like a house of cards when Butler sits. And he has not been perfect himself defensively, as I mentioned previously.

I also agree Boston probably won't end the season at #1, but on paper I would have a hard time seeing them even in the top half of the league.

I assumed that Boston would be probably around same level defensively than previous year and last year I thought they kind of underperformed in defense since previous year they had top5 defense and Horford was supposed to be also defensively upgrade for Sullinger.

This years team is certainly better in defense at PG position since Kyrie is clearly better than Isaiah Thomas was. Also one more year experience should help both Smart and Rozier. I also consider this year's big men rotation defensively better since Morris is upgrade compared to Olynyk, Theis probably upgrade for Jerebko and even tough Baynes is not as good as Amir Johnson was, he offers finally size to counter teams with really big front court. I think that will help Boston defense more than Amir helped since they are not anymore that vulnerable for teams with strong offensive rebounding.

So only their wing defense degraded and it was degraded clearly with Crowder and Bradley being replaced by rookies Tatum and Ojeleye. One more year experience for Brown helps a little and the fact that Smart is big enough to check most of the wings and Morris is mobile enough to defend those big small forwards. In Detroit Morris used to defend LeBron and other big wing scorers and Harris was typically matched against less athletic power forwards.

I watched that Boston/L.A. game last night. They were without Horford and also lost Tatum during the game. Yet they gutted out a win. It was some ugly ball offensively, but damn, they work their asses off. Rozier, Smart, Brown....these guys are bull dogs that hustle, get on the floor, and just fight for everything. I don't see that in Minnesota, sad to say. Dunn was the one guy I saw bring that attitude last year, but of course he was a train wreck on offense.

Q12543 wrote:Smart is unbelievable. He's like a more extreme version of Rubio's strenghts and weaknesses - he wreaks havoc on defense, but does it even better than Rubio. Offensively, his career averages are 9 PPG on 35.5% shooting. Yet, he's been a key component of a Boston team that had the best record in the Eastern Conference and is on track to do it again.

I always felt Dunn could be that kind of guy for us, which is why I really liked him. No, he couldn't really run an offense full time (and neither can Smart really, thus he's often playing with another PG), but he would mix it up in the paint, make spectacular weakside blocks, hound opposing guards, defend multiple positions, etc.

Smart is sort of an extreme version of a "do shit" player. Winning basketball is not all about scoring!

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Smart is unbelievable. He's like a more extreme version of Rubio's strenghts and weaknesses - he wreaks havoc on defense, but does it even better than Rubio. Offensively, his career averages are 9 PPG on 35.5% shooting. Yet, he's been a key component of a Boston team that had the best record in the Eastern Conference and is on track to do it again.

I always felt Dunn could be that kind of guy for us, which is why I really liked him. No, he couldn't really run an offense full time (and neither can Smart really, thus he's often playing with another PG), but he would mix it up in the paint, make spectacular weakside blocks, hound opposing guards, defend multiple positions, etc.

Smart is sort of an extreme version of a "do shit" player. Winning basketball is not all about scoring!

Yes. I was with you on Dunn... after it was clear he wasn't going to be a legit starting PG.

A positive use-case scenario was (is) Marcus Smart v2.0. In fact, he might even do some things better than Smart.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Smart is unbelievable. He's like a more extreme version of Rubio's strenghts and weaknesses - he wreaks havoc on defense, but does it even better than Rubio. Offensively, his career averages are 9 PPG on 35.5% shooting. Yet, he's been a key component of a Boston team that had the best record in the Eastern Conference and is on track to do it again.

I always felt Dunn could be that kind of guy for us, which is why I really liked him. No, he couldn't really run an offense full time (and neither can Smart really, thus he's often playing with another PG), but he would mix it up in the paint, make spectacular weakside blocks, hound opposing guards, defend multiple positions, etc.

Smart is sort of an extreme version of a "do shit" player. Winning basketball is not all about scoring!

Yes. I was with you on Dunn... after it was clear he wasn't going to be a legit starting PG.

A positive use-case scenario was (is) Marcus Smart v2.0. In fact, he might even do some things better than Smart.

Yup, I'm keeping an eye on that Bulls team. Here is a good leading indicator of future success. Guess where they rank in defensive efficiency? 7th in the NBA. So Butler heads to Minnesota, they have a rookie big in their lineup, one true "veteran" in Robin Lopez, and a bunch of early 20-somethings and they are a top 10 defense (so far).

Yes, their offense sucks so far. But LaVine will eventually get healthy and their early 20-somethings will eventually be mid 20-somethings and that is typically when guys begin to peak offensively. They could be good again within a couple years!

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Smart is unbelievable. He's like a more extreme version of Rubio's strenghts and weaknesses - he wreaks havoc on defense, but does it even better than Rubio. Offensively, his career averages are 9 PPG on 35.5% shooting. Yet, he's been a key component of a Boston team that had the best record in the Eastern Conference and is on track to do it again.

I always felt Dunn could be that kind of guy for us, which is why I really liked him. No, he couldn't really run an offense full time (and neither can Smart really, thus he's often playing with another PG), but he would mix it up in the paint, make spectacular weakside blocks, hound opposing guards, defend multiple positions, etc.

Smart is sort of an extreme version of a "do shit" player. Winning basketball is not all about scoring!

Yes. I was with you on Dunn... after it was clear he wasn't going to be a legit starting PG.

A positive use-case scenario was (is) Marcus Smart v2.0. In fact, he might even do some things better than Smart.

Yup, I'm keeping an eye on that Bulls team. Here is a good leading indicator of future success. Guess where they rank in defensive efficiency? 7th in the NBA. So Butler heads to Minnesota, they have a rookie big in their lineup, one true "veteran" in Robin Lopez, and a bunch of early 20-somethings and they are a top 10 defense (so far).

Yes, their offense sucks so far. But LaVine will eventually get healthy and their early 20-somethings will eventually be mid 20-somethings and that is typically when guys begin to peak offensively. They could be good again within a couple years!

The question becomes... how far does that Def Rating fall with LaVine in the lineup...

monsterpile wrote:Chicago has been dropping rapidly. They are now 15th in defensive efficiency.

monsterpile wrote:Chicago has been dropping rapidly. They are now 15th in defensive efficiency.