Minnesota Sports Forum

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 12:57 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 7:33 am Not many are gonna agree with this, but I'm completely done with Rudy in a Wolves uniform.
Thanks for the great Denver series, but when he's useless he's completely useless.
I understand the Wemby is a hard and borderline impossible cover for him but getting bitched on every rebound or layup is pathetic. Be strong and finish with force, grab rebounds with TWO fucking hands, be useful even if you're outmatched.

I'm not blaming Rudy for the loss since that list has about 10 people on it, but I'm just sick of theoretical advantages he provides running up against reality year after year

I agree with you. I waffled on Rudy this year, i started out ripping him, then moved to admiration, and now I'm back to he's just not that good. Don't throw any useless stats at me. The fact is we need him to at least hold his own against Wemby, after all he's the 4 time defensive player of the year. And now we can't even play him when Wemby's on the floor? And don't even get me started on the offensive end. He's just been God awful in this series.

Last game specifically he was without doubt terrible, but so was MOST the Wolves squad too! Your boy Jaden was in foul trouble and off the floor which is too often an occurrence in his own history. We need him to play, not riding the bench in foul trouble. And it's not like he is going into the paint and dunking on Wemby. No one is, no one can with any regularity in the NBA. Thats just the truth. To say oh Rudy is struggling with Wemby is like DUHH, everyone in the world struggles with the freak. It's like the dumbest statement ever.

When you are facing a unique alien like Wemby, I do think you simply have to avoid him for the most part. 3P's will be the key to beating him going forward. So the more drive and kick 3P guys you have who can defend will be valuable guys playing this team.

So going forward I would consider trading Rudy because the Spurs don't seem to be going anywhere. But it's not like he's taking up too much of the cap either. He's on a fair deal. You can really afford to play him 25-30 minutes a night if need be in a matchup like this.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:35 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:26 pm I'd argue for small sample size here.

And he's going up vs. Wemby and a very good team. I'm not saying he's been good... only that "Gobert's defense is why the Wolves are facing elimination" isn't near the top of my list.

But that's the problem!
It was against Dallas
It was against OKC
And it is now

He is so asymmetrical, and forces your team to be so asymmetrical that he has to be at least good on defense or you're cooked
That's the story of his whole career going back to Utah, that once you run into elite competition you are foiled by the small margins of your shrunken ceiling.

He's never "the reason" his teams lose on the court, but he forces roster sacrifices that foil your ceiling and ultimately leave you short of expectations.

I've had no problem with Rudy during his time here, the 23' run was some of the most fun I've had and he was at the center of it, but I'm now convinced--- especially at this stage of his career --- that he is fools gold for building a championship roster.

Sure. To be fair, very few NBA players are cut out to be top (or even key) options on championship teams. Gobert included.

But do you really think the Wolves haven't reached expectations with Gobert? With or without him, I don't know if they're championship caliber... maybe in '24?

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:41 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 12:57 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 7:33 am Not many are gonna agree with this, but I'm completely done with Rudy in a Wolves uniform.
Thanks for the great Denver series, but when he's useless he's completely useless.
I understand the Wemby is a hard and borderline impossible cover for him but getting bitched on every rebound or layup is pathetic. Be strong and finish with force, grab rebounds with TWO fucking hands, be useful even if you're outmatched.

I'm not blaming Rudy for the loss since that list has about 10 people on it, but I'm just sick of theoretical advantages he provides running up against reality year after year

I agree with you. I waffled on Rudy this year, i started out ripping him, then moved to admiration, and now I'm back to he's just not that good. Don't throw any useless stats at me. The fact is we need him to at least hold his own against Wemby, after all he's the 4 time defensive player of the year. And now we can't even play him when Wemby's on the floor? And don't even get me started on the offensive end. He's just been God awful in this series.

Last game specifically he was without doubt terrible, but so was MOST the Wolves squad too! Your boy Jaden was in foul trouble and off the floor which is too often an occurrence in his own history. We need him to play, not riding the bench in foul trouble. And it's not like he is going into the paint and dunking on Wemby. No one is, no one can with any regularity in the NBA. Thats just the truth. To say oh Rudy is struggling with Wemby is like DUHH, everyone in the world struggles with the freak. It's like the dumbest statement ever.

When you are facing a unique alien like Wemby, I do think you simply have to avoid him for the most part. 3P's will be the key to beating him going forward. So the more drive and kick 3P guys you have who can defend will be valuable guys playing this team.

So going forward I would consider trading Rudy because the Spurs don't seem to be going anywhere. But it's not like he's taking up too much of the cap either. He's on a fair deal. You can really afford to play him 25-30 minutes a night if need be in a matchup like this.

He can't catch or hold on to the basketball. It's basic to the fucking sport. End of story.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 3:25 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:35 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:26 pm I'd argue for small sample size here.

And he's going up vs. Wemby and a very good team. I'm not saying he's been good... only that "Gobert's defense is why the Wolves are facing elimination" isn't near the top of my list.

But that's the problem!
It was against Dallas
It was against OKC
And it is now

He is so asymmetrical, and forces your team to be so asymmetrical that he has to be at least good on defense or you're cooked
That's the story of his whole career going back to Utah, that once you run into elite competition you are foiled by the small margins of your shrunken ceiling.

He's never "the reason" his teams lose on the court, but he forces roster sacrifices that foil your ceiling and ultimately leave you short of expectations.

I've had no problem with Rudy during his time here, the 23' run was some of the most fun I've had and he was at the center of it, but I'm now convinced--- especially at this stage of his career --- that he is fools gold for building a championship roster.

Sure. To be fair, very few NBA players are cut out to be top (or even key) options on championship teams. Gobert included.

But do you really think the Wolves haven't reached expectations with Gobert? With or without him, I don't know if they're championship caliber... maybe in '24?

It's not about him being a key option, it's that the specific roster construction needed for him to succeed ultimately dooms you because of how dependent it is on him or just unattainable it is.

For example, this roster with KAT in place of Randle is holding an O'Brian trophy this year --- depending upon Ant's health.
why?

Cause KAT perfectly backfills the issues Rudy presents. Imagine the luxury of pivoting to kat/Naz when you need a more offensive minded lineup!

Oh wait you can't cause you could never have extended Naz with KATs contract.

This is obviously a problem of team building generally, but what I'm saying is that extremes are too.... Extreme with Rudy. Honestly he's too good at what he's good at that he's too expensive to afford his weaknesses

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 4:20 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 3:25 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 2:35 pm

But that's the problem!
It was against Dallas
It was against OKC
And it is now

He is so asymmetrical, and forces your team to be so asymmetrical that he has to be at least good on defense or you're cooked
That's the story of his whole career going back to Utah, that once you run into elite competition you are foiled by the small margins of your shrunken ceiling.

He's never "the reason" his teams lose on the court, but he forces roster sacrifices that foil your ceiling and ultimately leave you short of expectations.

I've had no problem with Rudy during his time here, the 23' run was some of the most fun I've had and he was at the center of it, but I'm now convinced--- especially at this stage of his career --- that he is fools gold for building a championship roster.

Sure. To be fair, very few NBA players are cut out to be top (or even key) options on championship teams. Gobert included.

But do you really think the Wolves haven't reached expectations with Gobert? With or without him, I don't know if they're championship caliber... maybe in '24?

It's not about him being a key option, it's that the specific roster construction needed for him to succeed ultimately dooms you because of how dependent it is on him or just unattainable it is.

For example, this roster with KAT in place of Randle is holding an O'Brian trophy this year --- depending upon Ant's health.
why?

Cause KAT perfectly backfills the issues Rudy presents. Imagine the luxury of pivoting to kat/Naz when you need a more offensive minded lineup!

Oh wait you can't cause you could never have extended Naz with KATs contract.

This is obviously a problem of team building generally, but what I'm saying is that extremes are too.... Extreme with Rudy. Honestly he's too good at what he's good at that he's too expensive to afford his weaknesses

KAT here was often in foul trouble and sitting on the bench, then while he was in foul trouble his defense was as good as a turd so he didn't pick up his 4th/5th/6th foul, eventually didn't live up to his contract.

Congrats to him though for getting the right coach and team now, he seems to be playing his best. While we are.....

Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 4:39 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 4:20 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 3:25 pm


Sure. To be fair, very few NBA players are cut out to be top (or even key) options on championship teams. Gobert included.

But do you really think the Wolves haven't reached expectations with Gobert? With or without him, I don't know if they're championship caliber... maybe in '24?

It's not about him being a key option, it's that the specific roster construction needed for him to succeed ultimately dooms you because of how dependent it is on him or just unattainable it is.

For example, this roster with KAT in place of Randle is holding an O'Brian trophy this year --- depending upon Ant's health.
why?

Cause KAT perfectly backfills the issues Rudy presents. Imagine the luxury of pivoting to kat/Naz when you need a more offensive minded lineup!

Oh wait you can't cause you could never have extended Naz with KATs contract.

This is obviously a problem of team building generally, but what I'm saying is that extremes are too.... Extreme with Rudy. Honestly he's too good at what he's good at that he's too expensive to afford his weaknesses

KAT here was often in foul trouble and sitting on the bench, then while he was in foul trouble his defense was as good as a turd so he didn't pick up his 4th/5th/6th foul, eventually didn't live up to his contract.

Congrats to him though for getting the right coach and team now, he seems to be playing his best. While we are.....

Obviously he didn't live up to his contract but that's kind of the point: there's limited options available for what you need around Rudy. The perfect option is a play making PF that can shoot and play reasonable small ball 5 defense.... So I guess... Aaron Gordon, who likely never plays a full 82 games again --- or 65 for that matter--- and who knows if he can even make it through a play offs.

The Wolves gamble or let Finch talk them into Julius being that option and it just doesn't work or it only works just good enough to be good but not great..

Obviously roster building in the NBA is challenging all together but Rudy seems to present the most unique challenges

For the ( fill in the blank)th time this season, Ant said something postgame like "the coaches put together a good game plan...we just didn't follow it". Many of us don't think Finchy's game plan is to have Ant bring the ball slowly up the court only to be double teamed as soon as he crosses midcourt. The result is a possession really not getting started until there are less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, and an Ant who is so exhausted he needs to go to the locker room for oxygen. So, who's to blame, and what can they do about it?

It's not a simple answer, and I've heard it discussed often on pods this season. I don't think the players are purposely ignoring the coaching staff. Kyle Thiege had a particularly interesting discussion about "game plan" about a month ago. He said the "game plan" is not a few comments made in the locker room or scribbled on a white board (similar to what many of us may have had during our playing days). It's actually a very detailed bound book handed out to each player several hours before a game. Thiege surmised that perhaps it might be too complex and difficult for the Wolves to understand, so they go back to their old habits. He didn't say it, so I will...players like Jaden, Naz and Ant are all lovable in their own ways, but none of them resembles a Rhodes Scholar. And Finchy seems to be a very cerebral coach to me. There may be a big intellectual disconnect there. Rather than the bound book, maybe it would be helpful for Finchy to keep it simple and focus on just a few key points. I continue to think Ant would be much more effective and have more left in the tank late in games at both ends if he didn't have to work so hard bringing the ball up court...stay off ball, and use screens to get some open looks. I'm not confident anything is going to change tomorrow, but it sure would help if Finchy could get through to these guys.

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 11:20 am

Phenom wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2026 10:07 pm Hoopshype headline is Wemby gets his revenge. Did i miss the part where Wemby was wronged? I'm so sick of the narrative already and his career is just getting started.

It's the headline in several places. The Athletic. Bill Simmons pod.

If you haven't heard by now... Naz Reid is the bully and Wemby is the victim.

Speaking of the Bill Simmons pod, he ended the show creating holy shit trades. This is probably the infant stages of this topic coming up but he brought up Ant being traded, specifically to Atlanta. This is probably right up the alley of quite a few of you:

Ant and 28 for Jalen Johnson, either Kispert or Risacher, plus pick 8 and 23 this year, the Bucks pick next year and the Hawks 1st round pick in '29, '31 and '33.

This eliminates contending for the next few years, if not longer, barring a re-flip of those picks or hitting triples and home runs with the 2 picks this year and maybe the Bucks pick next year.

Who loves it?

Phenom wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2026 9:52 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 11:20 am

Phenom wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2026 10:07 pm Hoopshype headline is Wemby gets his revenge. Did i miss the part where Wemby was wronged? I'm so sick of the narrative already and his career is just getting started.

It's the headline in several places. The Athletic. Bill Simmons pod.

If you haven't heard by now... Naz Reid is the bully and Wemby is the victim.

Speaking of the Bill Simmons pod, he ended the show creating holy shit trades. This is probably the infant stages of this topic coming up but he brought up Ant being traded, specifically to Atlanta. This is probably right up the alley of quite a few of you:

Ant and 28 for Jalen Johnson, either Kispert or Risacher, plus pick 8 and 23 this year, the Bucks pick next year and the Hawks 1st round pick in '29, '31 and '33.

This eliminates contending for the next few years, if not longer, barring a re-flip of those picks or hitting triples and home runs with the 2 picks this year and maybe the Bucks pick next year.

Who loves it?

Lol that's such a fucking haul

I wouldn't like forfeiting the Ant era this early but if you were to do it that's a good place to start for my money.

I'm guessing you might as well off load Jaden and my even Jalen and just start from scratch with all the picks in the world... Idk

It would suck to tank again. It's fun being competitive but it sucks that we don't feel like a legit contender and the only really path I see to that happening with this current iteration is that Ant fully unlocks his highest potential... Which isn't.... Impossible

Phenom wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2026 9:52 am

AbeVigodaLive wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2026 11:20 am

Phenom wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2026 10:07 pm Hoopshype headline is Wemby gets his revenge. Did i miss the part where Wemby was wronged? I'm so sick of the narrative already and his career is just getting started.

It's the headline in several places. The Athletic. Bill Simmons pod.

If you haven't heard by now... Naz Reid is the bully and Wemby is the victim.

Speaking of the Bill Simmons pod, he ended the show creating holy shit trades. This is probably the infant stages of this topic coming up but he brought up Ant being traded, specifically to Atlanta. This is probably right up the alley of quite a few of you:

Ant and 28 for Jalen Johnson, either Kispert or Risacher, plus pick 8 and 23 this year, the Bucks pick next year and the Hawks 1st round pick in '29, '31 and '33.

This eliminates contending for the next few years, if not longer, barring a re-flip of those picks or hitting triples and home runs with the 2 picks this year and maybe the Bucks pick next year.

Who loves it?

No.

I don't want any more re-re-re-builds before it's time.

The guy hasn't even hit his ceiling yet. Play that out first. Try to build around him. If it doesn't work (and it probably won't), and he starts getting Ant-sy, then that's the time to look into a trade like this.

Now would be entirely premature and I'd probably go into a bit of a Timberwolves hibernation period as a fan for a few years.