Minnesota Sports Forum

Tim hasn't weighed in with a "take it to the politics section" yet, and I think he's right to let this go on. Sophie's public comments and Cheryl's shirt on Sunday make this relevant "basketball talk" IMO. I also like that the conversation here has been quite respectful. Here are my thoughts:

1) The WNBA is so entertaining this year, but I agree that the non-basketball distractions can get annoying. But Kek nailed the big difference between the WNBA and the NBA in his hilarious point 2 in his rant...there are a lot of romances in the WNBA, and none that I know of in the NBA!

2) I admire the fact that Cheryl and Sophie reportedly had a very respectful conversation based on reports I've heard from people who were there and observed the body language. And while part of me wishes Cheryl hadn't stirred things up, I get why she did. 38% of the WNBA is estimated to be gay, and I would surmise that gay people as a minority might be more inclined to be more sensitive to the feelings of transexuals...Cheryl in a way is just supporting her players.

3) It's a complicated issue to me, but on balance I think I agree with both of them: trans kids belong, and biological men probably don't belong in women's sports. I would be quite surprised if I learned that Cunningham doesn't agree that trans kids belong...I think she only thinks they don't belong in the WNBA.

4)I also think I agree with the consensus here that it's probably not advisable to allow kids under 18 to physically transition. The argument that some of you make that the pre-18 year old brain is not developed enough yet to make such a dramatic decision resonates with me.

5) Anyway, those of us who have never been confused about our gender (and it's likely 100% of us here) should be grateful every day for that. My teenage grandson's best friend is a non-transitioned transexual (I guess it's a sign of the times that our Vice President's best friend in law school was transexual). And while they (yes, I'm trying to do the "pronoun thing", but it's still awkward) seem quite happy and well-adjusted, my grandson tells me it hasn't always been easy at times for them. I'm always going to be sympathetic to those who face struggles that are no fault of their own.

6) And finally, GO LYNX!!!!!!!

All kids matter and every kid should be given every opportunity to thrive. I believe a lot of kids today are not getting the help they need. Every time I hear of a confused kid going to counseling and then having the counselor immediately confirm his feelings really pisses me off. I'm close to a person who was abused as a child and lived much of his adolescence confused about who he was. He joined the military after high school and then became a police officer. He had trouble holding a job and then decided to finally get help for his mental issues. Social media played a role in his believing he might have gender issues. So he takes that to his therapist and before you know it he is on hormone therapy and getting surgeries to transition. They didn't dig in to his childhood or try to give him any real help, they just said if you feel like a woman that's who you should be. Fucking Oregon. Now he's got no nuts and isn't one bit happier about his life. In fact he's almost unemployable and rarely leaves the house. Too many lunatics are having too many children and the poor kids aren't getting the parenting or guidance necessary to acclimate to society. At the first sign of a problem they want to label these kids instead of getting the proper care they need and deserve. It's just really sad.

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:31 pm Tim hasn't weighed in with a "take it to the politics section" yet, and I think he's right to let this go on. Sophie's public comments and Cheryl's shirt on Sunday make this relevant "basketball talk" IMO. I also like that the conversation here has been quite respectful. Here are my thoughts:

1) The WNBA is so entertaining this year, but I agree that the non-basketball distractions can get annoying. But Kek nailed the big difference between the WNBA and the NBA in his hilarious point 2 in his rant...there are a lot of romances in the WNBA, and none that I know of in the NBA!

2) I admire the fact that Cheryl and Sophie reportedly had a very respectful conversation based on reports I've heard from people who were there and observed the body language. And while part of me wishes Cheryl hadn't stirred things up, I get why she did. 38% of the WNBA is estimated to be gay, and I would surmise that gay people as a minority might be more inclined to be more sensitive to the feelings of transexuals...Cheryl in a way is just supporting her players.

3) It's a complicated issue to me, but on balance I think I agree with both of them: trans kids belong, and biological men probably don't belong in women's sports. I would be quite surprised if I learned that Cunningham doesn't agree that trans kids belong...I think she only thinks they don't belong in the WNBA.

4)I also think I agree with the consensus here that it's probably not advisable to allow kids under 18 to physically transition. The argument that some of you make that the pre-18 year old brain is not developed enough yet to make such a dramatic decision resonates with me.

5) Anyway, those of us who have never been confused about our gender (and it's likely 100% of us here) should be grateful every day for that. My teenage grandson's best friend is a non-transitioned transexual (I guess it's a sign of the times that our Vice President's best friend in law school was transexual). And while they (yes, I'm trying to do the "pronoun thing", but it's still awkward) seem quite happy and well-adjusted, my grandson tells me it hasn't always been easy at times for them. I'm always going to be sympathetic to those who face struggles that are no fault of their own.

6) And finally, GO LYNX!!!!!!!

I’ve been resisting the impulse to weigh in heavily on this topic. Thank you, FNG, for saying exactly what I was thinking. I no longer feel compelled to write anything more on this topic in this thread.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 5:06 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:31 pm Tim hasn't weighed in with a "take it to the politics section" yet, and I think he's right to let this go on. Sophie's public comments and Cheryl's shirt on Sunday make this relevant "basketball talk" IMO. I also like that the conversation here has been quite respectful. Here are my thoughts:

1) The WNBA is so entertaining this year, but I agree that the non-basketball distractions can get annoying. But Kek nailed the big difference between the WNBA and the NBA in his hilarious point 2 in his rant...there are a lot of romances in the WNBA, and none that I know of in the NBA!

2) I admire the fact that Cheryl and Sophie reportedly had a very respectful conversation based on reports I've heard from people who were there and observed the body language. And while part of me wishes Cheryl hadn't stirred things up, I get why she did. 38% of the WNBA is estimated to be gay, and I would surmise that gay people as a minority might be more inclined to be more sensitive to the feelings of transexuals...Cheryl in a way is just supporting her players.

3) It's a complicated issue to me, but on balance I think I agree with both of them: trans kids belong, and biological men probably don't belong in women's sports. I would be quite surprised if I learned that Cunningham doesn't agree that trans kids belong...I think she only thinks they don't belong in the WNBA.

4)I also think I agree with the consensus here that it's probably not advisable to allow kids under 18 to physically transition. The argument that some of you make that the pre-18 year old brain is not developed enough yet to make such a dramatic decision resonates with me.

5) Anyway, those of us who have never been confused about our gender (and it's likely 100% of us here) should be grateful every day for that. My teenage grandson's best friend is a non-transitioned transexual (I guess it's a sign of the times that our Vice President's best friend in law school was transexual). And while they (yes, I'm trying to do the "pronoun thing", but it's still awkward) seem quite happy and well-adjusted, my grandson tells me it hasn't always been easy at times for them. I'm always going to be sympathetic to those who face struggles that are no fault of their own.

6) And finally, GO LYNX!!!!!!!

I’ve been resisting the impulse to weigh in heavily on this topic. Thank you, FNG, for saying exactly what I was thinking. I no longer feel compelled to write anything more on this topic in this thread.

The funny thing is about 80% agree that biological men should not play in higher level women's leagues: Olympics, NCAA, WNBA, etc. And that probably goes mostly for high school sports as well. My guess is Reeve and Sophie have ZERO difference on that point even though Reeve wouldn't quite say it directly, probably for fear of blowback from the activist community. In fact, it would have been even more courageous of her to speak plainly on that topic while still voicing her support for Trans kids.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 5:06 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:31 pm Tim hasn't weighed in with a "take it to the politics section" yet, and I think he's right to let this go on. Sophie's public comments and Cheryl's shirt on Sunday make this relevant "basketball talk" IMO. I also like that the conversation here has been quite respectful. Here are my thoughts:

1) The WNBA is so entertaining this year, but I agree that the non-basketball distractions can get annoying. But Kek nailed the big difference between the WNBA and the NBA in his hilarious point 2 in his rant...there are a lot of romances in the WNBA, and none that I know of in the NBA!

2) I admire the fact that Cheryl and Sophie reportedly had a very respectful conversation based on reports I've heard from people who were there and observed the body language. And while part of me wishes Cheryl hadn't stirred things up, I get why she did. 38% of the WNBA is estimated to be gay, and I would surmise that gay people as a minority might be more inclined to be more sensitive to the feelings of transexuals...Cheryl in a way is just supporting her players.

3) It's a complicated issue to me, but on balance I think I agree with both of them: trans kids belong, and biological men probably don't belong in women's sports. I would be quite surprised if I learned that Cunningham doesn't agree that trans kids belong...I think she only thinks they don't belong in the WNBA.

4)I also think I agree with the consensus here that it's probably not advisable to allow kids under 18 to physically transition. The argument that some of you make that the pre-18 year old brain is not developed enough yet to make such a dramatic decision resonates with me.

5) Anyway, those of us who have never been confused about our gender (and it's likely 100% of us here) should be grateful every day for that. My teenage grandson's best friend is a non-transitioned transexual (I guess it's a sign of the times that our Vice President's best friend in law school was transexual). And while they (yes, I'm trying to do the "pronoun thing", but it's still awkward) seem quite happy and well-adjusted, my grandson tells me it hasn't always been easy at times for them. I'm always going to be sympathetic to those who face struggles that are no fault of their own.

6) And finally, GO LYNX!!!!!!!

I’ve been resisting the impulse to weigh in heavily on this topic. Thank you, FNG, for saying exactly what I was thinking. I no longer feel compelled to write anything more on this topic in this thread.

Let me know if I can help you out in any of the other open threads here, Lip !

Getting back to buckets (although not trying to shortcircuit this interesting discussion), Lavelle E. Neal writes in this morning's Strib that Liv Miles needs to be in the MVP conversation. I don't disagree, but wow! Has a non #1 pick rookie in any sport ever been a serious contender for MVP in any sport? We may be witnessing history here.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:51 pm All kids matter and every kid should be given every opportunity to thrive. I believe a lot of kids today are not getting the help they need. Every time I hear of a confused kid going to counseling and then having the counselor immediately confirm his feelings really pisses me off. I'm close to a person who was abused as a child and lived much of his adolescence confused about who he was. He joined the military after high school and then became a police officer. He had trouble holding a job and then decided to finally get help for his mental issues. Social media played a role in his believing he might have gender issues. So he takes that to his therapist and before you know it he is on hormone therapy and getting surgeries to transition. They didn't dig in to his childhood or try to give him any real help, they just said if you feel like a woman that's who you should be. Fucking Oregon. Now he's got no nuts and isn't one bit happier about his life. In fact he's almost unemployable and rarely leaves the house. Too many lunatics are having too many children and the poor kids aren't getting the parenting or guidance necessary to acclimate to society. At the first sign of a problem they want to label these kids instead of getting the proper care they need and deserve. It's just really sad.

Cool thanks for sharing your experience.

"I believe a lot of kids today are not getting the help they need."

Your quote above is so true for so many kids and adults. I've seen it first hand hand in various settings and I'm sure all of us here have as well. I'm not sure exactly what to do about that on a macro level but it's definitely been an issue and has been for many years. All that does seem enough to say when we are talking about real people with things that had truly devastating happen to them.

I recently sat down and read through the documented history of someone on my caseload that is often one of the more challenging people to deal with. I was aware of most of the things but reading through it all at once was horrific. Fortunately this person has had some real positives in their life over the years but things and abuse from the past still likely create some serious issues. I'm trying a different approach recently and I'm hoping maybe it will help. I have to at least try.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2026 4:51 pm All kids matter and every kid should be given every opportunity to thrive. I believe a lot of kids today are not getting the help they need. Every time I hear of a confused kid going to counseling and then having the counselor immediately confirm his feelings really pisses me off. I'm close to a person who was abused as a child and lived much of his adolescence confused about who he was. He joined the military after high school and then became a police officer. He had trouble holding a job and then decided to finally get help for his mental issues. Social media played a role in his believing he might have gender issues. So he takes that to his therapist and before you know it he is on hormone therapy and getting surgeries to transition. They didn't dig in to his childhood or try to give him any real help, they just said if you feel like a woman that's who you should be. Fucking Oregon. Now he's got no nuts and isn't one bit happier about his life. In fact he's almost unemployable and rarely leaves the house. Too many lunatics are having too many children and the poor kids aren't getting the parenting or guidance necessary to acclimate to society. At the first sign of a problem they want to label these kids instead of getting the proper care they need and deserve. It's just really sad.

A big problem is to many are receiving "help" that isn't remotely helpful. There has been a push to affirm rather than determine if it's legit or pubescent confusion. Early hormone therapy and surgery is not help.

Again I really do commend folks for carrying this type of discussion so cordially. Which makes me hesitant to weigh in because my views might not be received as well.
But here's go nothing.
First I am no means nor any measure an expert. I work in construction and flunked out of college twice, so respectfully I'm an idiot and at best I can pretend to be a didact. My three kids are all ten or younger so gender issues haven't really arisen, although my son does occasionally like to wear dresses and paint his nails. I don't really think that means anything one way or the other, he just doesn't understand social dynamics the same as his peers cause he's autistic. A very close friend of mine has a trans son who is an adult now, a childhood friend of mine IDs as "they" but isn't necessarily trans, and my brother in law is engaged to a girl who started transitioning but decided it wasn't for her and is de-transitioning.

Take any of that as you will, I'm just providing context for my own life and experience. I'm not trying to prove any one wrong, just offer a different perspective. I won't assume anyone gender who post or read here but will say that if you're not trans, then of course this stuff feels strange or uncomfortable.

Ok, exposition finished let me say this: trans folks have existed as long as humans have constructed the idea of gender and maybe even before then, being trans is hard, transitioning is "help" and it often saves lives.

The last point is obviously a generality, and won't apply to every individual, but from everything I've read, accounts I've listened to, and the data is pretty clear that gender dysphoria is an extremely difficult thing to endure as you literally don't feel like you belong in your body. I can't understand that feeling at all but it sounds awful. No one here has expressed anything that makes it seem like they have a problem with this point, but more rather with how it applies to kids and the idea that professionals may be "forcing" certain treatments on people.

To that I ask, are they? Is there prove of that or is it media narrative used to wedge people? Again, I'm not an expert but as far as I understand, there are almost no cases of minors undergoing transitioning surgery and in fact the most common "gender affirming surgey" that minors receive are girls getting breast enhancements....... Interesting.

The friend I mentioned above with a trans son? First they accepted his name change and called him that, which was actually a gender neutral name, next it was they pronouns, then it was he/him, when he asked for hormone therapy while still a minor the parents said no your too young. At this point I assume he's transitioning hormonally, but I don't actually know and well it's not my business.
This is the story for most families.... When the parents are accepting, because a lot of trans kids end up kicked out and homeless.

Again Im not an expert, and literally have no idea what the right time is, but I suspect that should be left between the family and their doctors.

I do want to say this tho, or rather ask. When you picture a trans person, how often is it someone who looks like mishmash of gender stereotypes? I'm not calling anyone out here, I do it too, and it's because most of the time when we're confronted with the idea of reality of trans individual, it's someone is transitioning and not transitioned. Fact is that there are trans folk who completely pass as their preferred gender and none of us would have any idea. There are a lot of reasons for this obviously, luck being one of them, money as well, but so is earlier hormone therapy --- no comment on surgery cause that's above my pay grade---. I don't know the practical application of that fact, it is also above my pay grade, but it's.... Worth considering as we have these broader cultural conversations.

Aussie, Agree that this has been a cordial and informative dialogue, which is probably why Tim hasn't nixed it or moved it to the off topic section yet!

I agree that gender dysphoria is a real thing, just like lots of other psychological conditions. It should be treated with care and respect. What those treatment options look like and at what age should hormonal/surgical treatments be allowed (if ever) is what's hotly debated.

The terms male and female are inextricably linked to biology, which is a hard science. There is no suitable definition for either word without referring to hard biological truths which is determined during the moment of conception. My main problem is that the most zealous Trans activists and advocates want to compel the rest of society to make one's gender completely independent of biology, including changing the nomenclature (e.g. from Mother to Birthing Person). And they attack anyone that pushes back, even if doing so with love and respect.

I'm hopeful that ultimately there is a consensus that forms as the science bears out and the politics runs it's course that is understanding and respectful of kids/teens dealing with gender dysphoria while also maintaining certain boundaries that recognize biological truths.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2026 9:06 pm Aussie, Agree that this has been a cordial and informative dialogue, which is probably why Tim hasn't nixed it or moved it to the off topic section yet!

I agree that gender dysphoria is a real thing, just like lots of other psychological conditions. It should be treated with care and respect. What those treatment options look like and at what age should hormonal/surgical treatments be allowed (if ever) is what's hotly debated.

The terms male and female are inextricably linked to biology, which is a hard science. There is no suitable definition for either word without referring to hard biological truths which is determined during the moment of conception. My main problem is that the most zealous Trans activists and advocates want to compel the rest of society to make one's gender completely independent of biology, including changing the nomenclature (e.g. from Mother to Birthing Person). And they attack anyone that pushes back, even if doing so with love and respect.

I'm hopeful that ultimately there is a consensus that forms as the science bears out and the politics runs it's course that is understanding and respectful of kids/teens dealing with gender dysphoria while also maintaining certain boundaries that recognize biological truths.

Devil's advocate I guess, but what's the hard biological truth for when a trans person has transitioned to the other sex? Is there a hormonal threshold, are genital inspections needed, birth records? If that trans woman/girl, who looks and presents completely like a woman/girl, is found to have actually been born with a penis, should they be made to compete against men? What about cis girls who just happen to present more masculine?

I'm pushing back because the "hard truths" are simply more flexible than we realize when they interact with the real world. In fact they are finding that more and more men actually have an extra X chromosome. So what does that mean?

Science isn't about hard truths, it's creating and proving theories with the best data we can find and test