Camden wrote:The problem with the Bender/Porzingis comparison is that Zingis was playing a lot more with a much bigger role overseas before he was drafted. He was at least somewhat seasoned. Bender is no where near as experienced as KP was coming out.... which means not only are his strengths perhaps overrated, but his weaknesses haven't been picked up on yet due to minimal playing time. There's the flip side of that too, but it goes back to the previous point that Bender is a big gamble.
Bender has been playing in clearly better team in Europe than Porzingis. Maccabi is playing almost every year in Euroleague, which is clearly the best league in Europe. So Maccabi team has several NBA veterans and thus it is much harder to get minutes there. Porzingis was playing for Sevilla that is below average team in ACB and played in addition to Spanish league just in Eurocup.
Level of play in ACB is still much better than in Israel league. So it is true that there were clearly more material about Porzingis than Bender but since Bender is playing in better team and is one year younger, smaller role itself cannot be used as evidence that he would require much more time to get ready for NBA.
Both players were really good in U18 European championships. Porzingis in 2013 and Bender one year later. The fact that Bender was not even 17 at the time of that tournament, made Bender's play even more impressive.
Unless there is a trade. I think Bender and Chriss go 3rd and 4th. If Bender is there at 5 you take him and not look back. I don't see how he gets past both Celtics and Suns.
Leaving us with Hield, Dunn, and Murray. It is a tough call for me. All 3 are pretty good, but I think I go Hield, Murray, and Dunn. All seem like solid players and good kids.
Camden wrote:The problem with the Bender/Porzingis comparison is that Zingis was playing a lot more with a much bigger role overseas before he was drafted. He was at least somewhat seasoned. Bender is no where near as experienced as KP was coming out.... which means not only are his strengths perhaps overrated, but his weaknesses haven't been picked up on yet due to minimal playing time. There's the flip side of that too, but it goes back to the previous point that Bender is a big gamble.
Bender has been playing in clearly better team in Europe than Porzingis. Maccabi is playing almost every year in Euroleague, which is clearly the best league in Europe. So Maccabi team has several NBA veterans and thus it is much harder to get minutes there. Porzingis was playing for Sevilla that is below average team in ACB and played in addition to Spanish league just in Eurocup.
Level of play in ACB is still much better than in Israel league. So it is true that there were clearly more material about Porzingis than Bender but since Bender is playing in better team and is one year younger, smaller role itself cannot be used as evidence that he would require much more time to get ready for NBA.
Both players were really good in U18 European championships. Porzingis in 2013 and Bender one year later. The fact that Bender was not even 17 at the time of that tournament, made Bender's play even more impressive.
Great insights Mikkeman. Thanks for keeping us posted.
Q12543 wrote:Boy...Bender seems like a project to me, but I suppose that's OK if we plan on spending some money on a big man FA like Noah. But it's hard to see us getting much positive production out of Bender until at least year 2 or 3.
My thoughts exactly. Big time upside if he were to eventually put all the pieces together and build his body appropriately, but he's also arguably the biggest gamble in the draft considering where he's projected to be selected. I mentioned in one thread that I don't see him playing a ton the first couple years.
I don't think it's smart to take a guy for what he can give you in his early years. We are building for the long-term here, not to compete for a title in the next year or 2. Bender may not give much until year 3 or 4, but that's exactly when we would need his contribution because that's when Towns, Wiggins and Lavine will be entering their prime years. You just can't teach 7' with a handle so if he puts it together it gives us a monstrous frontcourt. I think you swing for the homerun again and bring in some vets to take care of the short-term because we can afford a miss and benefit that much more from a hit. Obviously you don't want to miss, but I don't think it kills our future potential if we do. I don't think Bender is going to be a bust, but you never know.
That's true, but in the mean time we are frittering away the value of a rookie deal. One of the great bargains you can find in the NBA is a rookie that can contribute fairly quickly, thus giving you four years of plus play on a cheap contract.
I wouldn't use that logic to completely rule out a guy like Bender, but there is a flip side to that coin with a player like Buddy Hield.
I suppose it's a little early for this but something I am going to keep in the back of my mind is could the Wokves end up finding an UFA that's worthwhile? That could be a guy out of college, a college guy that went over to Europe or the D-league for a couple years or an international player that was never drafted. Some of these guys are obviously longshots but Bazemore is going to be a guy pretty highly sought after this offseason and was not drafted. Whiteside is a guy that was toiling away in the D-league and now might get a max contract. Boban is an example of a guy that looks plenty worthwhile as a backup big man. Obviously these are some nice success stories but there are plenty of guys that ended up being worthless most we don't even think about.
I do think it's worth noting there are a lot of various avenues to add your team besides just the obvious draft and vet free agency. I'm going to be looking at some guys in this rookie class that will likely be I drafted that I would be interested in for the Wolves (kinda have to wait and see how the top pick goes), maybe guys I just want to make it and some guys I just bet have a good shot at making it on some level in the NBA.
2 final thoughts on Bazz and they have to do with him physically. This is a draft thread but it's the one where we got talking about Bazz's value and I went off on why I wanted to keep him. So I'll post my thoughts here.
Negative
There should still be some worry about how Bazz can hold up from an injury standpoint. He played all 82 games this last years which was a big step in the right direction but even as a Bazz supporter so am still a little worried since he also played a chunk of his freshman year with a bad ankle he hurt before the season began.
Positive
Part of the issue with Bazz in the past was his physical abilities. There were legit concerns about his lateral movement and his overall length if he had to play more SF or even a small all PF. Watching Bazz this last season I never really felt like his ability to stay in front of guys was a major problem. I saw times he ended up picking up PGs and certainly didn't embarrass himself. It was playing team defense and navigating screens that was the big problem. I'm not suggesting that Bazz is a great individual defender I am just saying I think one way or another he has gotten to the place his physical weaknesses don't really keep him from success its more his brain (especially on defense) and on especially on offense lack of his lack of skill specifivally his ball handling and ability to make jump shots. His length measurements are very similar to Iggy who is a different sort of athlete but Bazz has a bit of a unique ability to play strong. I only bring that up to point out that there are guys that are long but in some ways are are not and Bazz can play bigger than his specific measurements. The bottom line for me is Bazz has shown me enough physically and that's pretty good growth for a guy that was one of his weakness especially the lateral quickness. It's basically completely night and day from what we saw his rookie year especially during the summer league.
I'll finish this up with a draft thought since it's a draft thread. Of all the young players on the team Bazz clearly makes the most sense to deal (considering his upcoming contract status) if there was something out there where you got something you wanted back. I'm not not completely against trading him but Indont think he is a finished product yet. I do realize I'm being a bit of a homer about him but I've tried to believe in guys on this team in the past that IMO did less than Bazz has done.
