Minnesota Sports Forum

Patrick Williams out for the year. Big early blow for the bulls

I don't know how this idea will be received here, but to me this trade makes a lot of sense for both teams given their rosters and realistic windows to compete. It's not exactly a blockbuster, but I do think both teams come out ahead. Also, this deal couldn't be made official until after November 4, 2021.

Minnesota Timberwolves:
- Malik Beasley ($14,491,964)
- Jake Layman ($3,940,184)

= $18,432,148

Orlando Magic:
- Terrence Ross ($12,500,000)
- Robin Lopez ($5,000,000)

= $17,500,000


This trade accomplishes three things for the Wolves, in my opinion.

Firstly, they're acquiring a veteran sixth man in Ross who's comfortable coming off the bench and filling it up. He's a similar player type to Beasley although much more proven in his role, less expensive this season, and set to make a very affordable $11,500,000 next season in the last year of his contract. Beasley's arguably the better overall player, though not by much, and he's roughly six years younger than Ross, but I wonder if Beasley will struggle adjusting to his new role in Minnesota. If he's unable to find his rhythm coming off the bench, then Ross' ability to provide a scoring punch leading the second unit is more attractive to me. It's possible that Beasley, the starter, and Beasley, the sixth man, just aren't the same players. I'll mention that it's too early to be definitive, but it's a concern that I have in mind. That transition isn't easy for every player.

Secondly, the Wolves add some legitimate size to the frontcourt in Lopez. There's nothing sexy about his game, and his one-year deal is certainly overpriced, but he's a massive human being at 7'0", 280-pounds who plays his role well and would provide additional grit on this roster. Lopez has never been afraid to mix it up with his physicality and Minnesota's group of bigs is lacking that.

Lastly, this trade also frees up $932,148 that when combined with the $872,920 worth of room the Wolves are below the luxury tax threshold gives them $1,805,068 to play with and one open roster spot. That flexibility could be used in several different ways whether it's adding another free agent, being able to take back more salary in a future trade, or being equipped to pick up a player that gets bought out later in the season.

Orlando acquires what could be the best player in this trade in the soon-to-be 25-year old Beasley. He'd theoretically fit well next to Jalen Suggs in the backcourt and he's still considered a young player -- something Ross is not. Getting back Layman in return for Lopez is essentially a financial wash, though it's worth mentioning that the Magic have significantly more depth at center than they do at the forward position.

kekgeek1 wrote:Patrick Williams out for the year. Big early blow for the bulls

I hate seeing young guys get hurt early in their careers. Who plays for them now? Do they make a move?

Camden0916 wrote:I don't know how this idea will be received here, but to me this trade makes a lot of sense for both teams given their rosters and realistic windows to compete. It's not exactly a blockbuster, but I do think both teams come out ahead. Also, this deal couldn't be made official until after November 4, 2021.

Minnesota Timberwolves:
- Malik Beasley ($14,491,964)
- Jake Layman ($3,940,184)

= $18,432,148

Orlando Magic:
- Terrence Ross ($12,500,000)
- Robin Lopez ($5,000,000)

= $17,500,000


This trade accomplishes three things for the Wolves, in my opinion.

Firstly, they're acquiring a veteran sixth man in Ross who's comfortable coming off the bench and filling it up. He's a similar player type to Beasley although much more proven in his role, less expensive this season, and set to make a very affordable $11,500,000 next season in the last year of his contract. Beasley's arguably the better overall player, though not by much, and he's roughly six years younger than Ross, but I wonder if Beasley will struggle adjusting to his new role in Minnesota. If he's unable to find his rhythm coming off the bench, then Ross' ability to provide a scoring punch leading the second unit is more attractive to me. It's possible that Beasley, the starter, and Beasley, the sixth man, just aren't the same players. I'll mention that it's too early to be definitive, but it's a concern that I have in mind. That transition isn't easy for every player.

Secondly, the Wolves add some legitimate size to the frontcourt in Lopez. There's nothing sexy about his game, and his one-year deal is certainly overpriced, but he's a massive human being at 7'0", 280-pounds who plays his role well and would provide additional grit on this roster. Lopez has never been afraid to mix it up with his physicality and Minnesota's group of bigs is lacking that.

Lastly, this trade also frees up $932,148 that when combined with the $872,920 worth of room the Wolves are below the luxury tax threshold gives them $1,805,068 to play with and one open roster spot. That flexibility could be used in several different ways whether it's adding another free agent, being able to take back more salary in a future trade, or being equipped to pick up a player that gets bought out later in the season.

Orlando acquires what could be the best player in this trade in the soon-to-be 25-year old Beasley. He'd theoretically fit well next to Jalen Suggs in the backcourt and he's still considered a young player -- something Ross is not. Getting back Layman in return for Lopez is essentially a financial wash, though it's worth mentioning that the Magic have significantly more depth at center than they do at the forward position.

My first inclination is to pass on this but...then I considered a few factors. Let's do a classic pro and con list.

Cons

1. Like you said Beasleybis either the best player or the best asset in this deal. He is still signed for a possibly reasonable amount of money for 2 years beyond this one.

2. Robin Lopez isn't actually that good of a rebounder. If Q wants to check how his teams do in that category while he plays I'm curious about it. I like Robin Lopez is I'm not sure how good he is anymore.

3. We would be losing Jake Layman. Just kidding. :)

4. We would be trading some youth for going for it now. Lopez or Ross aren't long term pieces for the roster. Ross maybe could he resigned for longer term I suppose.

5. Could hurt team chemistry although Ross and Lopez are good guys and Lopez is hilarious.

Pros.

1. Ross is more proven to do what he does and probably is a less bad defender and is bigger than Beasley. I agree with Cam that Beasley is still not completely a known commodity and I'm about as big of a Beasley fan as there is here.

2. Saving money. Not only does it save money this season it saves over 4 million in salary next year. That could be significant. Meanwhile possibly being able to add a 15th player would be nice.

3. 15th roster spot could be used on a guy that can Help now or maybe they could use it on a younger player with some promise. That would help get back some of the long term/youth/potential given up in the trade. They could sign someone that's more proven as a PF which would really balance out the roster.

4. Gets rid of that bum Jake Layman...JK

Bonus content:

What effect would this trade have on other possible. Trade scenarios. Would Philly be more interested in Ross in a Simmons deal? How long would it take to include him? Would teams in a 3 team deal prefer Beasley? Maybe there is some other deal out there (we have no idea about as an option) that Beasley would be a piece of and a team would be completely out if he wasn't an option anymore

It's an interesting trade Cam. I think if I was the Wolves I would decline but the salary savings both this year and next is intriguing and I have always liked Ross.

Camden wrote:I don't know how this idea will be received here, but to me this trade makes a lot of sense for both teams given their rosters and realistic windows to compete. It's not exactly a blockbuster, but I do think both teams come out ahead. Also, this deal couldn't be made official until after November 4, 2021.

Minnesota Timberwolves:
- Malik Beasley ($14,491,964)
- Jake Layman ($3,940,184)

= $18,432,148

Orlando Magic:
- Terrence Ross ($12,500,000)
- Robin Lopez ($5,000,000)

= $17,500,000


This trade accomplishes three things for the Wolves, in my opinion.

Firstly, they're acquiring a veteran sixth man in Ross who's comfortable coming off the bench and filling it up. He's a similar player type to Beasley although much more proven in his role, less expensive this season, and set to make a very affordable $11,500,000 next season in the last year of his contract. Beasley's arguably the better overall player, though not by much, and he's roughly six years younger than Ross, but I wonder if Beasley will struggle adjusting to his new role in Minnesota. If he's unable to find his rhythm coming off the bench, then Ross' ability to provide a scoring punch leading the second unit is more attractive to me. It's possible that Beasley, the starter, and Beasley, the sixth man, just aren't the same players. I'll mention that it's too early to be definitive, but it's a concern that I have in mind. That transition isn't easy for every player.

Secondly, the Wolves add some legitimate size to the frontcourt in Lopez. There's nothing sexy about his game, and his one-year deal is certainly overpriced, but he's a massive human being at 7'0", 280-pounds who plays his role well and would provide additional grit on this roster. Lopez has never been afraid to mix it up with his physicality and Minnesota's group of bigs is lacking that.

Lastly, this trade also frees up $932,148 that when combined with the $872,920 worth of room the Wolves are below the luxury tax threshold gives them $1,805,068 to play with and one open roster spot. That flexibility could be used in several different ways whether it's adding another free agent, being able to take back more salary in a future trade, or being equipped to pick up a player that gets bought out later in the season.

Orlando acquires what could be the best player in this trade in the soon-to-be 25-year old Beasley. He'd theoretically fit well next to Jalen Suggs in the backcourt and he's still considered a young player -- something Ross is not. Getting back Layman in return for Lopez is essentially a financial wash, though it's worth mentioning that the Magic have significantly more depth at center than they do at the forward position.

Cam - That's a creative and interesting trade idea. But I'd pass on it for several reasons. First, given how well we're defending and how much we've depended so far on three players on the offensive end, we'll need Beasley's 3-point shooting, which I'm confident will get back on track. And I think he's a better 3-point shooter than Ross. Second, I love Beasley's total offensive game. He runs the floor, finishes above the rim and rebounded well -- better than Ross. It looks like he's also improved his passing and made that a weapon in his arsenal. And he's still young with more untapped upside. I'm not opposed to trading him, but I think we need to hold onto him as an asset to land better players than Ross and/or Robin Lopez. Third, I like the chemistry and toughness on this team and I think Beasley is a significant part of that. I wouldn't rock that apple cart for the likes of Ross or Lopez. Finally, while Lopez would provide nice size, he's not much of a rebounder. Not saying I wouldn't like to add him just for his size. But he's not much of a prize and not worth giving up Beasley in my view. Note also that we couldn't make the deal until Dec. 14, so maybe by that time, I will have changed my mind based on what we see from Beasley between now and then. And I do like the added benefit of freeing up luxury tax space to fill our 15th roster spot. It's not a bad deal; just one I wouldn't be inclined to make.

How about simply trading Layman and Nowell for Lopez? That's about what he's worth and I think he's the main target of the deal you were proposing. It would come close to giving us the luxury tax space needed to fill the 15th roster spot, but I'm not sure. In any event, we'd get a big body to help inside. Maybe that's something to do on Dec. 14. But right now, I'd just like to see us sign Cousins, Biyombo, or Giles. Or maybe we do a deal with Dallas and swap Layman for Boban or WCS.

Anyone here play PrizePicks?

Remember when Robert Covington was this team's second-best player?

Wow.

LaMello Ball had 27 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists and a steal in the Hornets win over the Blazers tonight. He is hands down the best rookie from last year's class. I love Anthony Edwards and he's probably the second best player from that class, but he has some significant ground to cover before he's at the same level as LaMello Ball.

lipoli390 wrote:LaMello Ball had 27 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists and a steal in the Hornets win over the Blazers tonight. He is hands down the best rookie from last year's class. I love Anthony Edwards and he's probably the second best player from that class, but he has some significant ground to cover before he's at the same level as LaMello Ball.

Eh, Lamelo is averaging 18.7/6/6.1 on 40/41/92 splits while Ant is averaging 23/8.5/3 on 39/32/88 splits.

The Hornets have been only 1 pt better with lamelo on the court compared to off, and the Hornets are averaging 4.3 pts more per 100 possessions than opponents with lamelo playing.

The Wolves have been 2.9 pts better with Ant on the floor compared to off and the Wolves are averaging +7.8 pts per 100 possessions than opponents when Ant is playing.

Think you are massively overreacting to 1 terrible Ant game. I can hear the argument that you would take lamelo over ant but to say he has a significant way to go to reach LaMello when Ant might already be having the better year is a overreaction to 1 bad Ant game

lipoli390 wrote:LaMello Ball had 27 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists and a steal in the Hornets win over the Blazers tonight. He is hands down the best rookie from last year's class. I love Anthony Edwards and he's probably the second best player from that class, but he has some significant ground to cover before he's at the same level as LaMello Ball.

Ball also has complete reign of the ball there. Something not afforded to Edwards here.