Minnesota Sports Forum

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

I'm just waiting for Kyrie to fall off the edge of the earth and see Woj tweet that Uncle Drew has joined the Warriors for the minimum.

KG4Ever wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Only in the NBA. LOL. Time for my idea of a separate league with competitive balance?

Enjoy the D-League or WNBA if you want that. The NBA has always had dynasties and that is not a bad thing.

Other than San Antonio, what dynasties have happened in small markets? I've seen Boston (4 times), the Lakers (3 Times), Chicago, and Golden State. If dynasties are only going to happen in major markets, what's the point? Show me Milwaukee vs Utah in the finals 4 straight years and I'll agree with you.

KG4Ever wrote:

crazysauce wrote:I literally hate the nba. The warriors signing. Cousins may have done me in. I cant stand this shit. Since when did working to get better and improve go out the door to joining forces with the best players in the league.

At this point the nba should just put all the players into a lottery and be drafted each year. Nice competetive teams and get a fresh team every year. No reason to watch next year at all. None.

LOL at all the hate!! The Warriors are by far the best organization in the NBA and they deserve their success. Best owners, best front office, best coaches and amazing talent. Who can blame Cuz for wanting to play for them.

I agree that the Warriors deserve the success they're having. Nothing was handed to them. They're not a storied franchise like the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks or Sixers. They were bad for quite a while before the rebuild that put them where they're at now. They're attracting top free agent talent because of what they built there from scratch through the draft -- Curry, Draymond Green and Klay Thompson. None of those picks was even a top 5 much less a top 1 or 2. Draymond was a 2nd round pick and Klay was the 11th pick in the first round. They also drafted Harrison Barnes, who played well and provided them with a nice trade asset. They paid big money at the time to sign Iggy as a free agent without putting themselves into the luxury tax zone. They hired a smart young head coach who understands the modern NBA game and who is adept at relating to players. That core of players and head coach won a championship before Durant got there. And they had the foresight as an organization to think ahead and ensure the cap room needed to sign Durant. Sure, they've made mistakes. But they make a lot of superb moves that far outweigh the bad. They do a great job of evaluating talent. They also think strategically and several steps ahead. You can say the same for the Celtics and Sixers.

So I'm not going to complain about the competitive imbalance even though I don't like it. But I will continue to complain about the Wolves settling for a medicore front office and coaching staff. How can Wolves fans expect excellence from a team run by medicore people? We can't and we shouldn't. I know Thibodeau has a lot of defenders on this Board and that's fine. But everything we've seen from him so far screams mediocrity. If we want a team in Minnesota that can contend for the ultimate prize, we need a top basketball executive who can get us there. In my view, Thibodeau can't.

I hate to break it to some of you guys, but we were never winning a title and we were never building towards that. Making the playoffs WAS our version of winning it all. If I was a Golden State fan I wouldn't apologize for any of this. They suffered for 40+ years, drafted well, got new ownership (this doesn't get talked about enough), and off they go. They're living every loser franchise's dream. If we really wanted to do a slow build for a title, this team never hires Thibs and does everything that followed, BUT 13 straight years of losing, this team can't keep using teams like Golden State as a reason to continue to be non competitive losers. All this team can do is continue to try not to do what we do best: lose.

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

Q - I just don't buy tasting the playoffs as a key to a young player's development. The Bulls didn't have to bring in older players to carry Jordan, Pippen and Grant into the playoffs. They got there themselves and grew organically together. Same with Curry, Thompson and Green. And in any event, if you take the view that having Butler was important because it got KAT and Wiggins a taste of playoff basketball, I'd say that Butler has served his purpose and it's time to move on by bringing in more young talent so this team can have a longer-term horizon and and extended run when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide back at least a little.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

Q - I just don't buy tasting the playoffs as a key to a young player's development. The Bulls didn't have to bring in older players to carry Jordan, Pippen and Grant into the playoffs. They got there themselves and grew organically together. Same with Curry, Thompson and Green. And in any event, if you take the view that having Butler was important because it got KAT and Wiggins a taste of playoff basketball, I'd say that Butler has served his purpose and it's time to move on by bringing in more young talent so this team can have a longer-term horizon and and extended run when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide back at least a little.

Here is the thing though Lip, whenever the Warriors and/or Lakers take a step back there will be 3 new super teams ready to take over the NBA. You need to have top tier players to recruit other players or you need to play in a big market. Or get super lucky and have a star player come out of your state (Maybe Matthew Hurt or Jalen Suggs or there is a young 8th grader on Howard Pulley could be that guy in 10 years).

In the end no matter what route we take we are pretty much screwed. That is not Thibs fault, that is not Glenn Taylor fault, that is just the general process of the NBA. Only one small market team has been a dynasty. That is the Spurs who had a top 15 player of all time in Tim Duncan.

Also if Kat and Wiggins can't get us to the playoffs by themselves we should be trading both of them because they are not the players that can ultimately lead us to a championship. I know it is sad but it is the truth.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Only in the NBA. LOL. Time for my idea of a separate league with competitive balance?

Enjoy the D-League or WNBA if you want that. The NBA has always had dynasties and that is not a bad thing.

Other than San Antonio, what dynasties have happened in small markets? I've seen Boston (4 times), the Lakers (3 Times), Chicago, and Golden State. If dynasties are only going to happen in major markets, what's the point? Show me Milwaukee vs Utah in the finals 4 straight years and I'll agree with you.

I don't expect the Wolves to necessarily win championships even though I'd love it if they did. I simply expect the Wolves to be in the running for an extended period (several yrs at least). By that I mean the Wolves as a team that other teams and observers consider a legitimate title contender. When you look at it that way, the list expands well beyond LA, Chicago, Boston and Golden State to include non-iconic franchises and even smaller markets. It includes San Antonio (several iterations over many years), Utah (in the Stockton/Malone era), Phoenix (Barkley era), Indiana (Reggie Miller era), Atlanta (Dominique Wilkins era), Cleveland (2 different LeBron eras and the Daugherty/Nance/Price era), Houston (Hakeem era), Dallas (Nowitski era, which included a championship), Miami (Wade/Shaq era, then Wade LeBron era), Portland (Walton era, Drexler era), Seattle (Gary Payton/Kemp era), OKC (Durant/Westbrook era). Note also that the Golden State Warriors has never had anything close to the same history or mystique as franchises like the Lakers, Celtics and Knicks. They build their own brand from scratch.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Only in the NBA. LOL. Time for my idea of a separate league with competitive balance?

Enjoy the D-League or WNBA if you want that. The NBA has always had dynasties and that is not a bad thing.

Other than San Antonio, what dynasties have happened in small markets? I've seen Boston (4 times), the Lakers (3 Times), Chicago, and Golden State. If dynasties are only going to happen in major markets, what's the point? Show me Milwaukee vs Utah in the finals 4 straight years and I'll agree with you.

I don't expect the Wolves to necessarily win championships even though I'd love it if they did. I simply expect the Wolves to be in the running for an extended period (several yrs at least). By that I mean the Wolves as a team that other teams and observers consider a legitimate title contender. When you look at it that way, the list expands well beyond LA, Chicago, Boston and Golden State to include non-iconic franchises and even smaller markets. It includes San Antonio (several iterations over many years), Utah (in the Stockton/Malone era), Phoenix (Barkley era), Indiana (Reggie Miller era), Atlanta (Dominique Wilkins era), Cleveland (2 different LeBron eras and the Daugherty/Nance/Price era), Houston (Hakeem era), Dallas (Nowitski era, which included a championship), Miami (Wade/Shaq era, then Wade LeBron era), Portland (Walton era, Drexler era), Seattle (Gary Payton/Kemp era), OKC (Durant/Westbrook era). Note also that the Golden State Warriors has never had anything close to the same history or mystique as franchises like the Lakers, Celtics and Knicks. They build their own brand from scratch.

What do all those teams you mentioned have in common they have players who are top 50 to ever play the game. So how do you suggest we get that player. Kat needs to dramatically improve but he is probably the one guy on the roster who has any chance to get there or we should blow it all up and do the 76ers process and take our shots. Even the sixers made some really shitty draft picks during their process. So if you suggest tanking again, I can respect that but I just don't think that is realistic.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:With cuz taking 1 year and irving with a year left, i would not be surprised to see jimmy decline the extension with us in order to form a team with his friends somewhere else like brooklyn next year.

I'd be very surprised if Jimmy resigns here. Wolves should trade Butler to LA or Philly and build a franchise around KAT and young talent. The Wolves realistically have no chance at a title in the next three years and Jimmy will be well past his prime by then. The Barking Bozo has set this organization back by aging this roster and going in win-now mode instead of patiently developing young talent.

Fans waited for this franchise to rebuild for over a decade without success. While I get the "title or bust" philosophy, I also appreciate fielding a winning a team, even if it doesn't contend every year. Part of KAT and Wig's development was to actually experience some winning and get a taste of the playoffs.

Q - I just don't buy tasting the playoffs as a key to a young player's development. The Bulls didn't have to bring in older players to carry Jordan, Pippen and Grant into the playoffs. They got there themselves and grew organically together. Same with Curry, Thompson and Green. And in any event, if you take the view that having Butler was important because it got KAT and Wiggins a taste of playoff basketball, I'd say that Butler has served his purpose and it's time to move on by bringing in more young talent so this team can have a longer-term horizon and and extended run when the Warriors and Lakers begin to slide back at least a little.

Here is the thing though Lip, whenever the Warriors and/or Lakers take a step back there will be 3 new super teams ready to take over the NBA. You need to have top tier players to recruit other players or you need to play in a big market. Or get super lucky and have a star player come out of your state (Maybe Matthew Hurt or Jalen Suggs or there is a young 8th grader on Howard Pulley could be that guy in 10 years).

In the end no matter what route we take we are pretty much screwed. That is not Thibs fault, that is not Glenn Taylor fault, that is just the general process of the NBA. Only one small market team has been a dynasty. That is the Spurs who had a top 15 player of all time in Tim Duncan.

Also if Kat and Wiggins can't get us to the playoffs by themselves we should be trading both of them because they are not the players that can ultimately lead us to a championship. I know it is sad but it is the truth.

Geek -- The point is that you don't have to be the Lakers to build a super team. Yes, it's easier for the Lakers. But if you're not a storied franchise in Southern California then you just have to be smart. No one handed it to Golden State. They weren't super lucky. They just made smart decisions. Houston did it a different way, but has succeeded with smart, creative, forward-looking decision-making. I'm not looking to be a dynasty. I'm just looking to do what the Warriors, Celtics and Sixers have done recently. OKC was getting it done until they became gun-shy when it came to the luxury tax and let Harden go. Even then, they almost made the NBA finals with Durant and Westbrook after a multi-year run as a legitimate title contender. None of those organizations have been super lucky and none of them landed the players they have now because of the markets they're in. That's simply inaccurate. Thorpe mentioned that he's never heard a player who played for the Wolves who didn't love Minneapolis. So yes, it definitely IS Thibodeau's fault and it IS Glen Taylor's fault. There are plenty of examples of NBA success behind the few storied NBA franchises and the few mega markets. That's the reality. And unless Wolves fans stop whining about our market and see things as they really are, the mediocrity will continue.