Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:Centers score a league worst 17.2 pts, at a 4th worst 56%, and grab a 4th worst 10.6 rebounds against us. We are pathetic inside, no way around it. Both G and Towns routinely leave their man and don't have the skill to rotate back to cover the basket. Each get beat regularly 1 on one as well. Couple this with our league worst D from inside 5 feet and there is an obvious problem here.

Some of your points here reminds me of last week in a 2 part feature in the Athletic Britt Robison sat down with Jim Peterson. One of the things they talked about was how some guys don't guard space well. They both said that's one of Belly's strengths that he doesn't overcommit when he helps and is often able to guard 2 players because he can get back to his man.

You can see it with Towns. When he stands still and waits better things happen than when he's jumping all over the place. I agree on Belly, he seems to know his limitations and plays angles well because of it.

Yeah, it can't be emphasized enough how maintaining a strong base and staying square is so important for big men defensively. KAT gets himself all twisted up and Gorgui always opens up his hips. And both have high centers of gravity, making them easily moved in the paint.

By the way, Patton is the same way, so we can expect very little help from him either....

Should have traded Belly before thanksgiving back when it looked like he was going to have a strong contract year.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Should have traded Belly before thanksgiving back when it looked like he was going to have a strong contract year.

only if dieng had the same agent as bazz and turned down that offer. That dieng contract is going to be a killer.

crazy-canuck wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Should have traded Belly before thanksgiving back when it looked like he was going to have a strong contract year.

only if dieng had the same agent as bazz and turned down that offer. That dieng contract is going to be a killer.

I think it was more about Dieng being smarter than Bazz and taking the money. At least we dodged the bullet with Bazz.

As for Belly I still see no reason to look to deal him. He is the type of player this team really needs and he isn't gonna get a massive contract. I think he compares well to Joe Ingles IF he keeps playing well and Ingles got a nice 4 year 52 million contract but there is less money to go around this year. He keeps looking like part of the solutions to the things this team needs.

I haven't updated this in over a month. Here is how things stood on February 3rd:

Jones - 112.2/102.7/+9.5
Butler - 112.1/103.8/+8.3
KAT - 113.7/107.2/+6.5
Gibson - 111.8/105.5/+6.3
Wiggins - 111.7/106.5/+5.2
Teague - 111.0/108.8/+2.2
Bjelly - 109.7/110.1/-.4
Dieng - 106.5/110.6/-4.1
Crawford - 106.4/112.1/-5.7

Here is how things stand today:

Butler - 113.1/105.3/+7.8
KAT - 113.9/107.5/+6.5
Gibson - 112.6/106.3/+6.3
Jones - 111.3/105.1/+6.2
Wiggins - 111.6/107.2/+4.4
Teague - 112.0/108.9/+3.1
Bjelica - 109.5/108.4/+1.1
Dieng - 106.5/111.4/-4.9
Crawford - 107.6/113.2/-5.6

- Jones definitely has fallen off a bit, but is still having a career year (in box score related stats as well). It was nice to see him impact the game with some scoring yesterday, as that is his biggest weakness.

- Crawford continues to be a huge liability, but someone has to be able to score points off the bench. It isn't Jones or Dieng, so Crawford is the only option. We desperately need to upgrade that 3rd wing position this offseason.

- Wiggins now 2nd worst among the starters. I honestly believe a Butler-Bjelly starting wing pairing would be more effective than a Butler-Wiggins pairing. Butler becomes the clear #1 option along with KAT and Bjelly would space the floor more while giving us more rebounding and smarter passing.

- Dieng has been a huge disappointment this year.....just not impacting the game much on either end.

Q12543 wrote:I haven't updated this in over a month. Here is how things stood on February 3rd:

Jones - 112.2/102.7/+9.5
Butler - 112.1/103.8/+8.3
KAT - 113.7/107.2/+6.5
Gibson - 111.8/105.5/+6.3
Wiggins - 111.7/106.5/+5.2
Teague - 111.0/108.8/+2.2
Bjelly - 109.7/110.1/-.4
Dieng - 106.5/110.6/-4.1
Crawford - 106.4/112.1/-5.7

Here is how things stand today:

Butler - 113.1/105.3/+7.8
KAT - 113.9/107.5/+6.5
Gibson - 112.6/106.3/+6.3
Jones - 111.3/105.1/+6.2
Wiggins - 111.6/107.2/+4.4
Teague - 112.0/108.9/+3.1
Bjelica - 109.5/108.4/+1.1
Dieng - 106.5/111.4/-4.9
Crawford - 107.6/113.2/-5.6

- Jones definitely has fallen off a bit, but is still having a career year (in box score related stats as well). It was nice to see him impact the game with some scoring yesterday, as that is his biggest weakness.

- Crawford continues to be a huge liability, but someone has to be able to score points off the bench. It isn't Jones or Dieng, so Crawford is the only option. We desperately need to upgrade that 3rd wing position this offseason.

- Wiggins now 2nd worst among the starters. I honestly believe a Butler-Bjelly starting wing pairing would be more effective than a Butler-Wiggins pairing. Butler becomes the clear #1 option along with KAT and Bjelly would space the floor more while giving us more rebounding and smarter passing.

- Dieng has been a huge disappointment this year.....just not impacting the game much on either end.

Good breakdown Q.

I think Dieng could be a guy that struggles when he doesn't get more minutes. I don't think he has to get 30+ but probably more like 25 per game would be solid. The other problem is that at times I think he struggles because the league is going away from bigs in general. I think he could be a solid starting center for a team that's trying to take a step up from not being terrible. The problem is there are a number of guys that are going to be available. Not many provide the spacing Dieng does though with his ability to hit shots at a good rate from long 2 range. If you look at his per 36 minute stats they are basically in line with what he has done the last few years so it's not like he has completely dropped off the face of the earth either. I think one legit criticism of Thibs is the bench doesn't play enough minutes because those guys don't really get enough playing time to get going. There are times though those guys have just been bad as well so as Jon K and Souhan have said it's the chicken and the egg thing. If they had another guy that was just fairly solid and stable it would help everyone. Hopefully we can get at least one of those guys this offseason. Belly being able to play at the 3 could be pretty significant as well.

Monster, No one cares that Dieng can hit the 18-footer semi-regularly. That isn't worth nearly what it used to be in the NBA. Even with that shot in his "arsenal" he is at nearly a career low in TS% and certainly well below league average. There is no space being created if teams consistently let him shoot it in order to sag into the paint and protect against more efficient offense.

As for the bench, the way I'd fix it without making any roster moves (and this assumes everyone is healthy, including Butler) is to have Tyus Jones start and then let Teague be the spark plug off the bench. Teague would also end most games and likely play even more minutes than Tyus. Doubt Thibs would ever do this though!

Q12543 wrote:Monster, No one cares that Dieng can hit the 18-footer semi-regularly. That isn't worth nearly what it used to be in the NBA. Even with that shot in his "arsenal" he is at nearly a career low in TS% and certainly well below league average. There is no space being created if teams consistently let him shoot it in order to sag into the paint and protect against more efficient offense.

As for the bench, the way I'd fix it without making any roster moves (and this assumes everyone is healthy, including Butler) is to have Tyus Jones start and then let Teague be the spark plug off the bench. Teague would also end most games and likely play even more minutes than Tyus. Doubt Thibs would ever do this though!

The reason his percentages are low is because he is taking those 3's and missing them. He is shooting very well from 2. Teams would certainly like having a guy that can hit a jumper outside the paint unlike some guys around the league that simply can't do anything a couple feet from the basket. Yeah that skill isn't as values as it once was but it's nice to have still. He is another odd/somewhat unique player which makes him a bit hard to value. I think his defense is better than what he has shown as a bench player this year partly because...yikes sometimes it's REALLY bad out there and Dieng isn't good enough to cover up anything but I think he can be a decent cog.

Starting Tyus and bringing Teague off the bench makes some sense. Would that be enough to play an MGH type and be more likely to get away with it? Idk. Tyus has made nice progress this season if he keeps improving that is one guy that can help this team quite a bit more than he does now and that's something to look forward to.

Q12543 wrote:Monster, No one cares that Dieng can hit the 18-footer semi-regularly. That isn't worth nearly what it used to be in the NBA. Even with that shot in his "arsenal" he is at nearly a career low in TS% and certainly well below league average. There is no space being created if teams consistently let him shoot it in order to sag into the paint and protect against more efficient offense.

As for the bench, the way I'd fix it without making any roster moves (and this assumes everyone is healthy, including Butler) is to have Tyus Jones start and then let Teague be the spark plug off the bench. Teague would also end most games and likely play even more minutes than Tyus. Doubt Thibs would ever do this though!

I too have thought of moving Teague to six man role Q to give us some scoring and offensive off the bench. But what's more important isn't who starts and who doesn't, its all about the rotation and having good combinations and staggering your starters with your 2nd unit.

Teague and Taj should come out at the 5 minute mark with Tyus and Belly checking in (when Butlers healthy). Then Teague and Taj come back in early in the 2nd. Butler and or Wiggin should be in the game at all time, especially next to Crawford to cover his defensive shortcomings.

I saw enough of Derrick Rose last night to know what I already knew. He doesn't fit and has lost what he depended on - his explosiveness.