Minnesota Sports Forum

New Orleans and Lakers lose to Eastern Conf teams tonight. Very good news, especially the Pelicans loss.

I honestly don't know who to root for in the OKC/Denver game. I think OKC is ultimately a top 5 playoff team and that Denver is more in line to compete with us for a bottom 2 or 3 seed. But I don't know now that OKC has gotten off to a poor start. I guess I'll consider it a wash since it's still so early.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Chicago has been dropping rapidly. They are now 15th in defensive efficiency.

Not sure where you are getting your stats from Monster, but b-ball reference has them at 7th.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1

NBA team rankings.com has them 8th. I know last week they had them 5th. Regardless they are trending in the wrong direction.

Q12543 wrote:New Orleans and Lakers lose to Eastern Conf teams tonight. Very good news, especially the Pelicans loss.

I honestly don't know who to root for in the OKC/Denver game. I think OKC is ultimately a top 5 playoff team and that Denver is more in line to compete with us for a bottom 2 or 3 seed. But I don't know now that OKC has gotten off to a poor start. I guess I'll consider it a wash since it's still so early.

I'd be happy if Denver won because I believe in them less long term than OKC.

I watched the Wizards Lakers game tonight. Ball struggles scoring for himself but the guy is fun to watch. Kuzma looks like the real deal. Wall had 3 blocks and 1 was unbelievable where he sprinted back jumped to try and steal a long pass missed took half a step and went back up and blocked Kizma at the rim.

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:New Orleans and Lakers lose to Eastern Conf teams tonight. Very good news, especially the Pelicans loss.

I honestly don't know who to root for in the OKC/Denver game. I think OKC is ultimately a top 5 playoff team and that Denver is more in line to compete with us for a bottom 2 or 3 seed. But I don't know now that OKC has gotten off to a poor start. I guess I'll consider it a wash since it's still so early.

I'd be happy if Denver won because I believe in them less long term than OKC.

I watched the Wizards Lakers game tonight. Ball struggles scoring for himself but the guy is fun to watch. Kuzma looks like the real deal. Wall had 3 blocks and 1 was unbelievable where he sprinted back jumped to try and steal a long pass missed took half a step and went back up and blocked Kizma at the rim.

I was mixed on who to cheer for in the OkC/Denver game. On one hand, I don't believe in any team with Carmelo on it, so I'm not worried about OkC...further, Denver looks really good to me, especially not that Mudiay (who I had written off at the ripe old age of 20 :() is playing like the guy they thought he could be. On the other hand, I want the OkC pick to be as high as it can be (right now it would be a 7 if it weren't protected). So I guess I'm happy with another OkC loss.

The East continues to play equal to the west...interleague remains about .500 after last night, despite Sac-town getting lucky against resurgent Philly.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:New Orleans and Lakers lose to Eastern Conf teams tonight. Very good news, especially the Pelicans loss.

I honestly don't know who to root for in the OKC/Denver game. I think OKC is ultimately a top 5 playoff team and that Denver is more in line to compete with us for a bottom 2 or 3 seed. But I don't know now that OKC has gotten off to a poor start. I guess I'll consider it a wash since it's still so early.

I'd be happy if Denver won because I believe in them less long term than OKC.

I watched the Wizards Lakers game tonight. Ball struggles scoring for himself but the guy is fun to watch. Kuzma looks like the real deal. Wall had 3 blocks and 1 was unbelievable where he sprinted back jumped to try and steal a long pass missed took half a step and went back up and blocked Kizma at the rim.

I was mixed on who to cheer for in the OkC/Denver game. On one hand, I don't believe in any team with Carmelo on it, so I'm not worried about OkC...further, Denver looks really good to me, especially not that Mudiay (who I had written off at the ripe old age of 20 :() is playing like the guy they thought he could be. On the other hand, I want the OkC pick to be as high as it can be (right now it would be a 7 if it weren't protected). So I guess I'm happy with another OkC loss.

The East continues to play equal to the west...interleague remains about .500 after last night, despite Sac-town getting lucky against resurgent Philly.

I watched most of the 2nd half of that Kings Sixers game. WCS had some terrific defensive possessions on Embiid down the stretch. Justin Jackson played well. Simmons...it's crazy how quick fluid and comfortable he looks out there. Thank goodness the idea wherever it came from of him bulking up was trashed. We may be headed toward a new era of lengthy ball handlers in the league.

longstrangetrip wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:This rookie class has gotten off to a pretty strong start. I am curious where this class will end up compared to others.

Yeah, this rookie class is really exciting. What is most interesitng to me, though, is that they generally don't fit the mold of the new 3-point NBA in that few of them are known as even average NBA outside shooters. Ball, Simmons, Smith, and Fultz are all contenders for ROY honors and all terrrific players, but none of them excels in 3-point shooting. Even Jayson Tatum is only 1-5 so far this season. Could this rookie class take the league back in another direction? Probably not, but they certainly seem different than the current stars.

LST, I have a feeling that you left on purpose certain player that is currently on pace to break Lillard's rookie made three pointers record off from your list. Lauri Markkanen is currently on pace to make 220 three pointers during his rookie season. That would be 35 more than Lillard's record.

I know that you suspected that he won't be as good three point shooter than his Arizona numbers suggest but I won't agree with your suspicion since nothing supports it in his history as a shooter. He shot 41.1% three pointers in 2015 U18 European championship games, 39.5% in 2016 U20 European championship games and 47.8% in 2017 Eurobasket. Those numbers and his lone season in Arizona predict that he will have plenty of success as a shooter.

In theory he should be even more effective in NBA because there he should get more catch and shoot opportunities since he should not be first option for his team as a rookie and NBA point guards should be able to do better job in finding him from pick and pop plays. Unfortunately currently Bulls guards are pretty horrible and thus they are not able to generate that much pick pop or spot up three point opportunities for Lauri. Currently only 33% of his treys have come from spot up plays, which is same amount than he has got from off screen plays.

Mikkeman wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:This rookie class has gotten off to a pretty strong start. I am curious where this class will end up compared to others.

Yeah, this rookie class is really exciting. What is most interesitng to me, though, is that they generally don't fit the mold of the new 3-point NBA in that few of them are known as even average NBA outside shooters. Ball, Simmons, Smith, and Fultz are all contenders for ROY honors and all terrrific players, but none of them excels in 3-point shooting. Even Jayson Tatum is only 1-5 so far this season. Could this rookie class take the league back in another direction? Probably not, but they certainly seem different than the current stars.

LST, I have a feeling that you left on purpose certain player that is currently on pace to break Lillard's rookie made three pointers record off from your list. Lauri Markkanen is currently on pace to make 220 three pointers during his rookie season. That would be 35 more than Lillard's record.

I know that you suspected that he won't be as good three point shooter than his Arizona numbers suggest but I won't agree with your suspicion since nothing supports it in his history as a shooter. He shot 41.1% three pointers in 2015 U18 European championship games, 39.5% in 2016 U20 European championship games and 47.8% in 2017 Eurobasket. Those numbers and his lone season in Arizona predict that he will have plenty of success as a shooter.

In theory he should be even more effective in NBA because there he should get more catch and shoot opportunities since he should not be first option for his team as a rookie and NBA point guards should be able to do better job in finding him from pick and pop plays. Unfortunately currently Bulls guards are pretty horrible and thus they are not able to generate that much pick pop or spot up three point opportunities for Lauri. Currently only 33% of his treys have come from spot up plays, which is same amount than he has got from off screen plays.

Ha, you got me Mikkeman...your countryman has far exceeded my expectations for him! Not only has he shot and scored well, he is also rebounding much better than most of us would have expected. Further, his defensive metrics look pretty good.

I was concerned about all the draft prognosticators predicting Markkanen as our pick, and I liked the big men projected to be available at 16, so that made the Butler deal seem even more attractive in my mind. But with Patton hurt and Lauri off to such a terrific start, I have to reevaluate my enthusiasm for the deal...still good, obviously, but not quite as good as I first thought.

That all said, let's wait to see how Lauri's career plays out. My concerns about his shooting were based on how poorly he shot the last half of his freshman year (around 25% on threes if I recall correctly) after padding his stats with well over 40% against weak competition in preseason. If Lauri comes back to earth as NBA defenses figure him out as NCAA defenses seemed to do the last half of the year, I will go back to feeling we dodged a bullet in trading down to #16. But right now, I have to admit the Fabulous Finn looks very good.

Getting back to LST's point about some of the rookies make you wonder about having some guys in the league that are really successful despite not being 3 point threats is something I have thought about also. It will be interesting to monitor going forward. GF and the Bucks giving him the ball and letting him do his thing is something that has paved the way for even more positionless basketball. Simmons looks like a legit PG. will their be more guys like that or are these guys unique? Clearly there is a movement towards bigs with more guard skills whether it's handling the ball or shooting or both. It really has been an interesting evolution the past 20 years.

monsterpile wrote:Getting back to LST's point about some of the rookies make you wonder about having some guys in the league that are really successful despite not being 3 point threats is something I have thought about also. It will be interesting to monitor going forward. GF and the Bucks giving him the ball and letting him do his thing is something that has paved the way for even more positionless basketball. Simmons looks like a legit PG. will their be more guys like that or are these guys unique? Clearly there is a movement towards bigs with more guard skills whether it's handling the ball or shooting or both. It really has been an interesting evolution the past 20 years.

You could argue that Magic, Pippen, and LeBron are three pioneers in being "point-wings" that could also do a lot of other things at a high level. I think the big man as volume 3-point shooter is the more dramatic change. We have literally seen Centers change their game over the course of a couple years to become legit threats from beyond the arc (Brook Lopez for example).

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Getting back to LST's point about some of the rookies make you wonder about having some guys in the league that are really successful despite not being 3 point threats is something I have thought about also. It will be interesting to monitor going forward. GF and the Bucks giving him the ball and letting him do his thing is something that has paved the way for even more positionless basketball. Simmons looks like a legit PG. will their be more guys like that or are these guys unique? Clearly there is a movement towards bigs with more guard skills whether it's handling the ball or shooting or both. It really has been an interesting evolution the past 20 years.

You could argue that Magic, Pippen, and LeBron are three pioneers in being "point-wings" that could also do a lot of other things at a high level. I think the big man as volume 3-point shooter is the more dramatic change. We have literally seen Centers change their game over the course of a couple years to become legit threats from beyond the arc (Brook Lopez for example).

Sure this isn't brand new. I thought of Magic for sure. What makes these guys (GF and Simmons) so interesting is their length AND they are playing together in the same era. Will there be more of those guys during their era which also happens to overlap with LeBron? Sabonis as a young player in the NBA would have been another pioneer. It's a fascinating time to watch the league. So many players are getting the freedom to utilize various strengths and more creative abilities have been developed both here in the US and abroad.