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Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:24 am
by khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
If Thad Young does have a PO, then a first round pick is the best they are going to get for him because he is a 1 year rental in a lot of situations. They should probably deal him before this year because he will 100% opt out if his is still in Philly at the end of the year because he is done with that team and the constant losing. He's going to leave them because they hung him out to dry on awful teams going on several years running and they have showed they have no interest in getting better until after his deal is up anyway. I'm not saying it'd be that much better here, but we'd already have the building blocks to start trying to win and not try to lose when he would get here. So Philly would be flipping an expiring asset guaranteed to leave for a first round pick. That is a good pick up for a team looking to keep building. Nobody else is giving them a first for an expiring.

Edit: I think we could pay him enough and have the personnel that could convince him to sign here long-term.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:47 am
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Lipoli- LeBron is smarter than the Cavs owner and front office personnel. He understands that getting Love will be pivitol to the Cavs championship aspirations and he will do all he can to make sure the opportunity to get Love doesn't slip away over a head case like Waiters, an untested rookie with a shaky handle (Wiggins), a rookie failure (Bennett), a mediocre young PF (T. Thompson) or a future mid 1st round pick.


Lip, Lip, Lip...I may have to blame you for the occasional lack of perspective on this board in evaluating whether the Cavs should give up Wiggins or not :) . Look at your description of what we would be getting back...who in their right mind would want that garbage! Let's compare your description of these guys to how others might perceive them.

Wiggins- Lip: untested rookie with a shaky handle.
Others: A gifted, unique athlete who may be the best prospect since LeBron

Bennett- Lip: a rookie failure
Others: a true stretch 4 with both an NBA body and an ability to hit the three. Had a horrible rookie year due to injury and being overweight, but looks ready to contribute now.

Waiters: Lip: a head case
Others: A serviceable SG with an ability to stretch the court, and may benefit from a change in scenery. There are rumors that he is a locker room cancer, much like Kevin Love, but Luol Deng has said this is false and that he is a good teammate.

TT: Lip: a mediocre young PF
Others: An athletic young PF who averaged close to a double double his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and who instantly makes the Wolves a better defensive club. Could thrive with a pass first PG like Rubio.

I'm not saying that your comments about the four guys are not without merit, but they lack balance as these guys have also been described with my words. The same thing happens in reverse on this board with Kevin Love. We talk about his scoring, rebounding and passing, but we spend less time focusing on some of the qualities that frighten GM's: poor defense, unliked teammate not a clutch performer and a non-winner.

If we look at the players involved in potential Wolves/Cavs deals and include all of their positive and negative qualities in our evaluation, it makes it much easier to understand why the Cavs are balking at pulling the trigger.

That said, I still think they do it. That's why I have TT in my opening night starting lineup (although for balance purposes I will add that I hate his jumpshot!)

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:25 pm
by Lipoli390
longstrangetrip wrote:Lipoli- LeBron is smarter than the Cavs owner and front office personnel. He understands that getting Love will be pivitol to the Cavs championship aspirations and he will do all he can to make sure the opportunity to get Love doesn't slip away over a head case like Waiters, an untested rookie with a shaky handle (Wiggins), a rookie failure (Bennett), a mediocre young PF (T. Thompson) or a future mid 1st round pick.


Lip, Lip, Lip...I may have to blame you for the occasional lack of perspective on this board in evaluating whether the Cavs should give up Wiggins or not :) . Look at your description of what we would be getting back...who in their right mind would want that garbage! Let's compare your description of these guys to how others might perceive them.

Wiggins- Lip: untested rookie with a shaky handle.
Others: A gifted, unique athlete who may be the best prospect since LeBron

Bennett- Lip: a rookie failure
Others: a true stretch 4 with both an NBA body and an ability to hit the three. Had a horrible rookie year due to injury and being overweight, but looks ready to contribute now.

Waiters: Lip: a head case
Others: A serviceable SG with an ability to stretch the court, and may benefit from a change in scenery. There are rumors that he is a locker room cancer, much like Kevin Love, but Luol Deng has said this is false and that he is a good teammate.

TT: Lip: a mediocre young PF
Others: An athletic young PF who averaged close to a double double his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and who instantly makes the Wolves a better defensive club. Could thrive with a pass first PG like Rubio.

I'm not saying that your comments about the four guys are not without merit, but they lack balance as these guys have also been described with my words. The same thing happens in reverse on this board with Kevin Love. We talk about his scoring, rebounding and passing, but we spend less time focusing on some of the qualities that frighten GM's: poor defense, unliked teammate not a clutch performer and a non-winner.

If we look at the players involved in potential Wolves/Cavs deals and include all of their positive and negative qualities in our evaluation, it makes it much easier to understand why the Cavs are balking at pulling the trigger.

That said, I still think they do it. That's why I have TT in my opening night starting lineup (although for balance purposes I will add that I hate his jumpshot!)


Long - You're right. I was just exaggerating to make a point. The Cavs would be giving up potential for a proven star. That's the more precise description. Most people who mention these Cav players refer only to their positive potential almost as if it's a forgone conclusion they will reach their potential. I wanted to focus on the opposite (and accurate) side of the equation. Actually, most highly touted high picks historically don't become stars.

You'll see in some of my posts I'm actually pretty high on Thompson and Bennett.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:34 pm
by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
lipoli390 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:Lipoli- LeBron is smarter than the Cavs owner and front office personnel. He understands that getting Love will be pivitol to the Cavs championship aspirations and he will do all he can to make sure the opportunity to get Love doesn't slip away over a head case like Waiters, an untested rookie with a shaky handle (Wiggins), a rookie failure (Bennett), a mediocre young PF (T. Thompson) or a future mid 1st round pick.


Lip, Lip, Lip...I may have to blame you for the occasional lack of perspective on this board in evaluating whether the Cavs should give up Wiggins or not :) . Look at your description of what we would be getting back...who in their right mind would want that garbage! Let's compare your description of these guys to how others might perceive them.

Wiggins- Lip: untested rookie with a shaky handle.
Others: A gifted, unique athlete who may be the best prospect since LeBron

Bennett- Lip: a rookie failure
Others: a true stretch 4 with both an NBA body and an ability to hit the three. Had a horrible rookie year due to injury and being overweight, but looks ready to contribute now.

Waiters: Lip: a head case
Others: A serviceable SG with an ability to stretch the court, and may benefit from a change in scenery. There are rumors that he is a locker room cancer, much like Kevin Love, but Luol Deng has said this is false and that he is a good teammate.

TT: Lip: a mediocre young PF
Others: An athletic young PF who averaged close to a double double his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and who instantly makes the Wolves a better defensive club. Could thrive with a pass first PG like Rubio.

I'm not saying that your comments about the four guys are not without merit, but they lack balance as these guys have also been described with my words. The same thing happens in reverse on this board with Kevin Love. We talk about his scoring, rebounding and passing, but we spend less time focusing on some of the qualities that frighten GM's: poor defense, unliked teammate not a clutch performer and a non-winner.

If we look at the players involved in potential Wolves/Cavs deals and include all of their positive and negative qualities in our evaluation, it makes it much easier to understand why the Cavs are balking at pulling the trigger.

That said, I still think they do it. That's why I have TT in my opening night starting lineup (although for balance purposes I will add that I hate his jumpshot!)


Long - You're right. I was just exaggerating to make a point. The Cavs would be giving up potential for a proven star. That's the more precise description. Most people who mention these Cav players refer only to their positive potential almost as if it's a forgone conclusion they will reach their potential. I wanted to focus on the opposite (and accurate) side of the equation. Actually, most highly touted high picks historically don't become stars.

You'll see in some of my posts I'm actually pretty high on Thompson and Bennett.


We all do that, lip...lord knows I'm not balanced enough about our star PF!

I recall both of us being as high as anyone on Bennett's potential at the time of the draft, although I was surprised to see him go first. At any rate, it would be nice to see him bounce back from a dreadful rookie season...as a T-Wolf.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:51 pm
by Lipoli390
Long -- Yes, we were both high on Bennett last year but were still mystified that the Cavs took him at #1. Last season was a disaster for him, but I do think a lot of it were medical breather and sleep issues that have been corrected in addition to excess weight that he's lost. I looked back recently at some video of him from college. I also looked back at his college stats and some reviews of him from college. He really is immensely talented. As a pure talent, he's the closest thing to Charles Barkley since Charles. Just so no one misinterprets this post, I'm NOT saying Bennett is on the same level as Barkley from a talent perspective. But he has the same somewhat unique combination of width, athleticism, strength and scoring skills.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:54 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
"As a pure talent, he's the closest thing to Charles Barkley since Charles."

Bennett's closer to Derrick Williams than he is Charles Barkley... as a pure talent.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:03 pm
by Monster
Camden0916 wrote:"As a pure talent, he's the closest thing to Charles Barkley since Charles."

Bennett's closer to Derrick Williams than he is Charles Barkley... as a pure talent.


Lip what about comparing Bennett to another UNLV product Larry Johnson. Injuries really derailed his career but when healthy he was a very good player. I think any team would be happy to have Bennett turn into a healthy Larry Johnson. Thoughts?

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:06 pm
by Coolbreeze44
monsterpile wrote:
Camden0916 wrote:"As a pure talent, he's the closest thing to Charles Barkley since Charles."

Bennett's closer to Derrick Williams than he is Charles Barkley... as a pure talent.


Lip what about comparing Bennett to another UNLV product Larry Johnson. Injuries really derailed his career but when healthy he was a very good player. I think any team would be happy to have Bennett turn into a healthy Larry Johnson. Thoughts?

I think that's a pretty good comparison. Both had some range and similar body types. Now let's be honest, Johnson was a scorer, and he maximized that while he was able to stay healthy. Bennett is a far cry from maximizing his talents.

And by the way, the only problem with DWill was his brain. He has as much talent as players having tremendous success in the league. Problem is his worst stat was IQ.

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:27 pm
by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
come on Bennett was only the 1st pick because the Cavs were dumb and took him to high. If he would of went like 5-6 where he was projected, there wouldn't be these lofty projections.

You don't hear anybody calling Alex Len as having the talent of Tim Duncan

Re: The Love-Wiggins Deal Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:07 pm
by kekgeek
Do you think that if the trade Wiggin/Bennet/1st goes down, do you think we look to trade Martin for a PF.

For example
Martin and Bud to Charlotte for Zeller, Henderson and a 1st

We go into this youth movement, also Charlotte gets what they need most and that is perimeter shooting and scoring