Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:49 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:40 pm

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 13, 2025 11:52 am

The idea that Durant is a terrible defender comes right from his defensive rating the past five seasons, which got progressively worse: 112 in 2020-21, 113 in 2021-22, 114.4 in 2023-24 and 118.9 just last season. That’s an unmistakable decline with age from bad (112) to terrible at 119. Now if you look at Durant’s entire career, it’s clear he was once an elite defender. But we’re not talking about that Durant. We’re talking about the post-Achilles Durant in his 30s whose defensive rating has consistently declined from bad to terrible over the past five years. I don’t think there’s any legitimate debate about whether the current 37 year old version of Durant is a bad defender. He’s a bad defender, period. He’s still a terrific shooter who scores a lot of points very efficiently. But that’s all he is. He’s not a playmaker. He’s not very mobile. And he’s a poor defender. Moreover, you can count on him to miss at least 20 games and you can’t know how much his game will further decline as he gets closer to age 40.

Lip, I have this discussion about every few months with FNG as well and I will continue to beat the drum until folks stop referring to it. I'm assuming you pulled those defensive ratings from Basketball Reference? That is an outdated metric developed by Dean Oliver many years ago and it largely uses team defense (and yes, Phoenix was pretty bad on defense last year) and box score stats to determine an individual's Defensive Rating.

In fact, the basketball reference folks had to put these two caveats in to the metric (my bold and underline):

- Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

- Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs.

END

Now it's no secret that Phoenix struggled defensively last year and Durant himself is not capable of being an anchor on that end. Like a lot of scoring NBA PFs, he needs to do his fair share but isn't going to be expected to guard the opposing team's best wing or anchor the paint.

I've already quoted a much more modern defensive metric (D-EPM) in my prior post that suggests Durant is still average-ish to slightly above on defense. None of us really know without a more extensive eye test, but my point is that you shouldn't be hanging your hat on the B-ball reference stat to support your claim.

Lip, See above....This is the entire back and forth you and I had where I cite one of the other defensive metrics (in bold pink for your viewing pleasure!) and point out what is wrong with the metric you keep citing.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:27 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.

Randle, I'm fine with dumping him. But Rudy, we gave up a combined 5 FRP/swaps/Kessler. He's still a defensive beast with great plus/minus numbers who Finchy lobbied for. If Finch can't make Rudy work, fire his ASSSSS!

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:40 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.

Rudy's an Albatross?? Your boy TC gave up a sh*tload of assets (Kessler, 3 FRPs, swap) just to get him and you want to dump him now. How the h*ll can u love TC as much as you seem to do and not acknowledge how ridiculously stupid that trade was?

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:41 pm

KG4Ever wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:27 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.

Randle, I'm fine with dumping him. But Rudy, we gave up a combined 5 FRP/swaps/Kessler. He's still a defensive beast with great plus/minus numbers who Finchy lobbied for. If Finch can't make Rudy work, fire his ASSSSS!

Too often we play 4 on 5 in the offensive end

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:08 pm I think we're missing half the story in this thread. We're focusing entirely on the pros and cons of KD. What about the pros of ridding ourselves of Rudy, Randle or both? Opportunities to jettison those guys may not come around again. In the deal involving the Nets we could move both in one shot. To me that is a huge proposition. I acknowledge the contributions both made, particularly Rudy, but I can't discount the feeling we would have a better chance for the next couple years and then benefit from KD's expiring. Personally I think Ju, and Ru are currently a couple of albatrosses we will have to deal with sooner than later.