Minnesota Sports Forum

Here are my cherry picked stats:

All-time best NCAA 3-point shooters in terms of percentage (min.370 made) Division 1

Kyle Korver
Mark Alberts
Ryan Wittman
Brett Blizzard
Chris Lofton
Rotnie Clarke
Jon Diebler
Andrew Goudelock
Steph Curry

That's some list. Oh, you want major conference schools? It's not much better. It's JJ Reddick and that's the list.

One wouldn't HAVE to play LaVine at the point, it would just give the rotation more flexibility. Even if you didn't play him here, you could still find him 30-32 minutes with 20-22 for Hield someplace, which is not bad for a rookie. But Q's right at it would still not be ideal in terms of the rotation.

I really like Dunn, and if everything worked out with him, he'd either be an improvement on Rubio (and hopefully Rubio co-exist because I love his leadership and tenacity and defense off the ball). Even if not, Dunn could play the 1 or the 2 so he could still play quite a bit if he was good enough. The question would be whether he can prove his last season's 3pt% wasn't a fluke.

On the surface, Dunn would be more disruptive because we have an established stater at his position who is kind of the leader of the team. But the more you think about it, the more it could work.

The best part of Dunn is he can play both ways, which we really need, especially defensively. The best part of Hield is he's a crazy-good three point shooter.

If we take Hield, some might be afraid it would mean we might eventually trade LaVine. If we take Dunn, some might be afraid we would eventually more Rubio. Either way, to get to that point, the new guy would have to be pretty good to push those guys out of the starting spot, and that would be a good problem to have at that point.

The bottom line to me is the Wolves have 1 classic SG in Lavine and he is really the only creative ball handling scoring guard on the roster. Tyus might qualify as well but he isn't a guy I would count on at this point so there is a need for an impact guard. So with any of those guys you get some part you usually want from a guard that the Wolves lack on the roster in scoring, ball handling, shooting, attacking, defensive ability, playmaking. No guys have all the stuff you want from one player but they all bring something this team lacks right now. We don't have to go that route either as they may be able to find help in FA but if BPA is one of these guys there certainly can be minutes for them if they are up to the task.

BizarroJerry wrote:Here are my cherry picked stats:

All-time best NCAA 3-point shooters in terms of percentage (min.370 made) Division 1

Kyle Korver
Mark Alberts
Ryan Wittman
Brett Blizzard
Chris Lofton
Rotnie Clarke
Jon Diebler
Andrew Goudelock
Steph Curry

That's some list. Oh, you want major conference schools? It's not much better. It's JJ Reddick and that's the list.

Ohio State, NC State and Tennessee are major conference schools to me so I am a little confused about the major conference schools comment.

Good find though it turns out Wittman was the answer all along. Why didn't we have him on our roster when we needed shooting all this time?

monsterpile wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Here are my cherry picked stats:

All-time best NCAA 3-point shooters in terms of percentage (min.370 made) Division 1

Kyle Korver
Mark Alberts
Ryan Wittman
Brett Blizzard
Chris Lofton
Rotnie Clarke
Jon Diebler
Andrew Goudelock
Steph Curry

That's some list. Oh, you want major conference schools? It's not much better. It's JJ Reddick and that's the list.

Ohio State, NC State and Tennessee are major conference schools to me so I am a little confused about the major conference schools comment.

Good find though it turns out Wittman was the answer all along. Why didn't we have him on our roster when we needed shooting all this time?

Are you thinking of Randy Wittman? Yes, a few of those guys went to big schools but out of the top 20 or so, 3 or 4 have had good NBA careers.

The age issue is not a huge deal for me. Buddy and Valentine would be great pickups and they will be good pros with plenty of upside potential. All the youth talk seems to be focused on Murray but for the record, there are five guys expected to be drafted in the first round that are younger than Murray: Bender (youngest), Ingram (2nd youngest), Korkmaz, Chriss and Thon Maker.

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16033779/chad-ford-workout-confidential-ben-simmons-dejounte-murray-2016-nba-draft

Dejounte Murray, G, Fr., Washington

Simmons began the season No. 1 on our board. Dejounte Murray? He wasn't even in the top 100.

He was ranked by our ESPN recruiting gurus as the 49th player in the freshman class and the 16th-best shooting guard prospect.

Once he stepped on the court at Washington, things changed quickly. Our own Kevin Pelton, a Washington Huskies aficionado, texted me early in the season about Murray and Marquese Chriss (who was ranked 60th out of high school). The more I watched, the more I saw two of the most underrated players in the draft.

Fast-forward to June, and Chriss is looking more and more like a top-five pick. Now, many teams have Murray ranked as the third-best point guard in the draft, behind Kris Dunn and Jamal Murray. Last week, we moved him to No. 10 in our Mock Draft 8.0.

How did Murray make the leap so quickly? It starts with his elite size for the position. At 6-foot-5 with a 6-foot-11 wingspan, Murray is huge. He's a good athlete, tough despite a relatively thin stature and an elite rebounder for a guard. He also has what some scouts refer to as simply "the juice."

The juice is that feel for the game that allows a player to play instinctively. They feel the game; they don't overthink it. Watch Murray in games or in these workouts, and there's an almost playground-like feel to his game. That can be a good and bad thing. Players who play uninhibitedly are usually a step ahead of more cerebral players who have to problem-solve before they act. They also can be a careless, bordering on wild with the ball.

Both qualities apply to Murray. His quickness and reflexes allow him to get anywhere he wants on the floor. He sees plays before they develop, which can lead to spectacular passes and finishes. It can also get him in trouble, as it can lead to bad shots under duress and turnovers.


His jump shot is still a work-in-progress too. He shot just 28 percent from 3 and 34 percent on his 2-point jumpers. The shot goes in some, but looks streaky. He can knock down open shots and did so with regularity in the workout I saw.

As one long-time scout put it, Murray is still "helping both teams out there." But Murray is 19, and that's to be expected.

Put in game film of Kris Dunn at 19 -- when he was averaging 5.8 PPG, 3.2 APG, and 1.9 turnovers per game in 27 MPG -- and it isn't even close. At the same age, Murray is considerably better. Comparing him to Dunn, who has two more full seasons under his belt, isn't fair. If you project Murray with two more years at Washington, he'd likely be the first point guard off the board on draft night.

The question is whether teams are willing to be patient as he continues to hone his game. The transition from college to the pros is toughest for young point guards. The speed and physicality of the game change everything, and it takes a while for them to get their feet underneath them. For a team willing to be patient, Murray has the potential to be the steal of the draft.

BizarroJerry wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Here are my cherry picked stats:

All-time best NCAA 3-point shooters in terms of percentage (min.370 made) Division 1

Kyle Korver
Mark Alberts
Ryan Wittman
Brett Blizzard
Chris Lofton
Rotnie Clarke
Jon Diebler
Andrew Goudelock
Steph Curry

That's some list. Oh, you want major conference schools? It's not much better. It's JJ Reddick and that's the list.

Ohio State, NC State and Tennessee are major conference schools to me so I am a little confused about the major conference schools comment.

Good find though it turns out Wittman was the answer all along. Why didn't we have him on our roster when we needed shooting all this time?

Are you thinking of Randy Wittman? Yes, a few of those guys went to big schools but out of the top 20 or so, 3 or 4 have had good NBA careers.

Of course I was thinking of Randy Wittman since Ryan is his son. That was basically the reason for the sarcastic comment. :)

Thanks now I get what you meant now on the top college shooting percentage guys.

More form Ford

"Jamal Murray may be the best scorer in the draft, but he can't guard anybody."

Shooting is at an all-time premium in the league right now. After Murray broke a Celtics record in a workout on Wednesday, hitting 79-for-100 from NBA 3, and John Calipari stating it's Murray -- not Simmons, Ingram or Chriss -- that should be the No. 1 pick, should Murray actually be considered for the top spot?

His strengths as a scorer are obvious. Not only can he really shoot it, but Murray has more to his game than just a jump shot. He can put the ball on the deck, get to the rim, and see the floor well enough to be a playmaker.

Multipositional, playmaking shooters are the rage right now. So why isn't he No. 1?

One GM nailed it by saying there are serious concerns about who Murray guards at the next level. The effort is there, but the lateral quickness is not. That probably keeps him in the No. 3-6 range.


If Dejounte Murray played at North Carolina or Duke, he'd be a top-five pick."

We've been high on Murray for a while and it seems as if the league is catching up to that point of view. His length, quickness, toughness and ability to play multiple positions make him one of the highest upside guards in the draft.

As I wrote in my workout confidential on Thursday, if you compare Kris Dunn to Murray at the same age, I think Murray probably would get the nod over Dunn in this year's draft.

But top-five pick? His lack of shooting probably keeps him from hitting that range. Dunn is ahead of Dejounte Murray on virtually every draft board in the league and I think it will stay that way. But after Dunn is off the board (and Jamal Murray, if you count him as a point guard), I think Dejounte Murray has moved into the consensus spot as the next-best PG in the draft.

There are teams, particularly the Wolves and Pelicans, that could take him in the top six. But I think his landing spot is more likely in the No. 8-17 range, with the Kings, Bucks, Jazz, Bulls and Grizzlies the most likely candidates to draft him.

"The Lakers should take Marquese Chriss at No. 2."

First Kevin Pelton says the Lakers should take Dragan Bender at No. 2. Now this?

Chriss was at No. 8 on our Big Board for quite a while, and moved up to No. 6 in our latest Big Board. We are currently projecting him to go No. 4 to the Suns in our latest mock draft.

But No. 2? Over Brandon Ingram? Is the hype going overboard?

Chriss' elite athleticism, combined with size, length and the ability to both stretch the floor and protect the rim make him a unique prospect. Few players have a similar combination of physical tools and basketball skills.

In the past few weeks I've heard comparisons to Shawn Marion and Shawn Kemp. As we've been saying in this space for a while, he has highest ceiling in the draft after Ben Simmons and Ingram.

But does he have a higher ceiling than Ingram? Perhaps. He's a better athlete, and given his body type, he might be a better defender (if he can learn how to stay out of foul trouble).

That said, he's not the shooter Ingram is and his floor is also much lower. Ingram is more of a sure thing. Chriss is much more raw, and while he is clearly competitive, his decision-making on the court is a lot further behind compared to Ingram.

Talking to Lakers sources, I think Ingram is the pick for L.A. at No. 2. He has similar upside to Chriss without the risks.

But after that? The Celtics, Suns and Wolves all will be very tempted. I'm still betting on the Suns at No. 4. But the Celtics taking him at No. 3 is a real possibility.

bleedspeed177 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16033779/chad-ford-workout-confidential-ben-simmons-dejounte-murray-2016-nba-draft

Dejounte Murray, G, Fr., Washington

Simmons began the season No. 1 on our board. Dejounte Murray? He wasn't even in the top 100.

He was ranked by our ESPN recruiting gurus as the 49th player in the freshman class and the 16th-best shooting guard prospect.

Once he stepped on the court at Washington, things changed quickly. Our own Kevin Pelton, a Washington Huskies aficionado, texted me early in the season about Murray and Marquese Chriss (who was ranked 60th out of high school). The more I watched, the more I saw two of the most underrated players in the draft.

Fast-forward to June, and Chriss is looking more and more like a top-five pick. Now, many teams have Murray ranked as the third-best point guard in the draft, behind Kris Dunn and Jamal Murray. Last week, we moved him to No. 10 in our Mock Draft 8.0.

How did Murray make the leap so quickly? It starts with his elite size for the position. At 6-foot-5 with a 6-foot-11 wingspan, Murray is huge. He's a good athlete, tough despite a relatively thin stature and an elite rebounder for a guard. He also has what some scouts refer to as simply "the juice."

The juice is that feel for the game that allows a player to play instinctively. They feel the game; they don't overthink it. Watch Murray in games or in these workouts, and there's an almost playground-like feel to his game. That can be a good and bad thing. Players who play uninhibitedly are usually a step ahead of more cerebral players who have to problem-solve before they act. They also can be a careless, bordering on wild with the ball.

Both qualities apply to Murray. His quickness and reflexes allow him to get anywhere he wants on the floor. He sees plays before they develop, which can lead to spectacular passes and finishes. It can also get him in trouble, as it can lead to bad shots under duress and turnovers.


His jump shot is still a work-in-progress too. He shot just 28 percent from 3 and 34 percent on his 2-point jumpers. The shot goes in some, but looks streaky. He can knock down open shots and did so with regularity in the workout I saw.

As one long-time scout put it, Murray is still "helping both teams out there." But Murray is 19, and that's to be expected.

Put in game film of Kris Dunn at 19 -- when he was averaging 5.8 PPG, 3.2 APG, and 1.9 turnovers per game in 27 MPG -- and it isn't even close. At the same age, Murray is considerably better. Comparing him to Dunn, who has two more full seasons under his belt, isn't fair. If you project Murray with two more years at Washington, he'd likely be the first point guard off the board on draft night.

The question is whether teams are willing to be patient as he continues to hone his game. The transition from college to the pros is toughest for young point guards. The speed and physicality of the game change everything, and it takes a while for them to get their feet underneath them. For a team willing to be patient, Murray has the potential to be the steal of the draft.

That's my guy. Sky rocketing up draft boards.